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#251 2019-09-12 01:24:32

Barbarian3165
Completely Blotto
Registered: 2015-02-11
Posts: 299

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Lol, go right ahead.

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#252 2019-09-12 02:20:12

darthel0101
Wasted
Registered: 2013-08-18
Posts: 168

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Speaking of killing somebody, Marcus was able to get into that new school in Erle, and we know that school was still in operation when the weres invaded. Is it possible that karma came to roost on the Savolar's household?

Last edited by darthel0101 (2019-09-12 02:20:58)

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#253 2019-09-12 03:17:01

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 4577
Website

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Do you see Savolar as someone who would voluntarily attend class?

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
----
Please don't be an asshole to me, because then I'll have to be an asshole to you... and I'm MUCH better at being an asshole than you are.

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#254 2019-09-12 03:21:38

Barbarian3165
Completely Blotto
Registered: 2015-02-11
Posts: 299

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

So, is he in earth then, or has he already gained citizenship?

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#255 2019-09-12 04:59:33

darthel0101
Wasted
Registered: 2013-08-18
Posts: 168

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Eric Storm wrote:

Do you see Savolar as someone who would voluntarily attend class?

Not really, but with his 8th year coming up and needing to ensure citizenship, it might not have been an option.

Last edited by darthel0101 (2019-09-12 05:01:04)

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#256 2019-09-12 08:41:52

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 4577
Website

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Let's consider.  He was expelled at the end of his 3rd year, but we do not know when he got into Madchen Hall.  We assume it was in book 6.  With another two years to go for citizenship, that would give him citizenship (assuming he qualified) at the end of book 7.  Book 7 would have been Savolar's last opportunity to make citizenship without being forced to live in Earth outside of school.

And please note that:  A non-citizen over 25 can attend college in order to attain citizenship, but they must live in Earth while outside school.  (or make an extended visit to someone during off-school periods, but they would have no official address.)

And this would NOT be Savolar's 8th year.  Assuming that book 6 was, in fact, his first year at Madchen Hall, then he was not attending during books 4 and 5.  He would only be in his fourth year of college in book 6.  SO, 6, 7, 8, he would be in years 4, 5, and 6.  He would be allowed two more years after that.  However, he would never be eligible for his Magistrate's Decree, because he missed his Travel Endorsement exam at the end of his third year, and so would have to take it in his fourth.  Since the tests are taken progressively, it automatically disqualifies him to test for his MD.

But Erle was attacked during the summer.  Summer classes at MH are optional.  Savolar is not a serious enough student to attend optional schooling, so he wouldn't have been there.  He'd have been in Bellamy when it was evacuated.  Where he is now is anyone's guess.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
----
Please don't be an asshole to me, because then I'll have to be an asshole to you... and I'm MUCH better at being an asshole than you are.

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#257 2019-09-12 18:01:14

aquintel
Tipsy
Registered: 2013-02-22
Posts: 4

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

The diaphragm closes the thoracic cavity  maintaining the  negative pressure that expands the lungs,  otherwise the external pressure wouldn't be capable to send oxygen inwards and, if disrupted, the seal will not function, thus, if  you rip  the muscular membrana that is the diaphragm,  breathing doesn't occur.

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#258 2019-09-13 00:23:16

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 4577
Website

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Not that it's relevant to the conversation concerning the werewolf in question, but your post is highly inaccurate.  How can I be so sure?  How can the diaphragm "close the thoracic cavity" when it has several holes in it to allow other structures through?  Structures such as your esophagus, blood vessels, nerves, etc.

Further, diaphragmatic rupture happens in about 5% of severe blunt trauma cases to the abdomen.  So if a simple tear to the diaphragm could prevent breathing, all of these people would die without immediate ventilation.  (Only between 5-40% of people die from diaphragmatic rupture, depending on circumstances).  It causes breathing difficulty, but not a complete stop.

But, again, I made quite clear in the book that the cut David made was below the rib cage, which means that the diaphragm was never in danger.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
----
Please don't be an asshole to me, because then I'll have to be an asshole to you... and I'm MUCH better at being an asshole than you are.

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#259 2019-09-13 00:24:38

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 4577
Website

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

PS:  Diaphragm and all its associated words are a royal bitch to type repeatedly!

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
----
Please don't be an asshole to me, because then I'll have to be an asshole to you... and I'm MUCH better at being an asshole than you are.

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#260 2019-09-13 18:30:03

Pudding5
Inebriated
From: New York, New York
Registered: 2013-02-18
Posts: 23

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Speaking as an EMT (def not a doctor so take with a grain of salt) but completely opening the abdomen would cause more of a problem than the type of tear you would see from a blunt trauma. And the structures that pass through have what essentially amounts to the bodily version of gaskets around them to maintain the seal.
Regardless it is correct that he could maintain breathing through the use of the intercostal muscles. Though he probably would have had difficulty speaking as much as he did, but artistic liberty.
This could all be extra moot if the bloodbank potion provided oxygenated blood, then breathing wouldn't even be necessary for his continued life. Though that wasn't the context of the comment that started this so...

Last edited by Pudding5 (2019-09-13 18:30:28)

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#261 2019-09-13 18:52:54

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 4577
Website

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Well, all I have is Googling, so even less info than you... but my reading suggests that, as far as D-rupture (I'm not typing that word anymore, dammit!), blunt trauma is actually worse than penetrating trauma - the damage appears to be greater, because in blunt trauma, what you get is a "burst", rather than a "tear".

But, again, I made it clear in the story that the cut David made was below the rib cage.  The D exists entirely within the rib cage, so David would not have endangered its integrity in any way.

And, while I had never considered it, I imagine that Bloodbank WOULD create oxygenated blood, as non-oxygenated blood isn't particularly useful for much in the realm of keeping you alive.

So, again... the D was fully intact throughout this incident.  Only the abdominal cavity was destroyed, and the abdominal cavity, as far as my research can show me, doesn't have anything to do with the normal acts of breathing, only "forced exhalation", which isn't something our victim was doing much of.  This would also mean, since he was able to breathe "normally", that he would have no trouble talking, except for the pain.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
----
Please don't be an asshole to me, because then I'll have to be an asshole to you... and I'm MUCH better at being an asshole than you are.

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#262 2019-09-14 12:55:16

aquintel
Tipsy
Registered: 2013-02-22
Posts: 4

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Just for clarification, I'm a surgeon

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#263 2019-09-14 18:38:53

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 4577
Website

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

This gives me grave concerns about your patients, if you're giving out inaccurate information like the post you made here...

aquintel wrote:

if  you rip  the muscular membrana that is the diaphragm,  breathing doesn't occur.

This is just factually not true.  As pointed out earlier, the intercostal muscles are capable of allowing the lungs to breathe, though that breathing is more difficult and not as effective.  It would certainly have been sufficient for the limited time the "patient" had left in this case in question.

Eric Storm

PS:  Some reason you felt the need to use "membrana" instead of "membrane", given they have the same meaning?


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
----
Please don't be an asshole to me, because then I'll have to be an asshole to you... and I'm MUCH better at being an asshole than you are.

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#264 2019-09-14 22:25:51

darthel0101
Wasted
Registered: 2013-08-18
Posts: 168

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Eric Storm wrote:

This gives me grave concerns about your patients, if you're giving out inaccurate information like the post you made ...

3dcool

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#265 2019-09-16 01:58:45

Josh.Bond
Inebriated
Registered: 2014-03-10
Posts: 50

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

aquintel wrote:

Just for clarification, I'm a surgeon

This just goes to show the difference between education and intelligence. I know people who have very high IQ and don't have college degrees to get the "High paying jobs" but can tell you what is wrong with your car just from your description of what is wrong with it. I also know someone who Has a college degree that couldn't boil an egg to keep themselves from starving.

As my Father once told me B.S.= Bull Shit, M.S.= More Shit, PhD= Piled Higher and Deeper.

For the record he has 3 degrees, is gong to be 82 shortly, and has been retired for the last 17 years.

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#266 2019-09-18 17:07:59

darthel0101
Wasted
Registered: 2013-08-18
Posts: 168

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

I have (undiagnosed, but strongly suspected) Asperger's and have seen the same thing.
I also have a near encyclopediac (as opposed to photographic) memory and end up surprised at how often people mis-remember things.

I have to rein in my tongue too often, trying to keep from aggravating a situation where somebody "with more knowledge" ends up being demonstrably, flat-out wrong.

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#267 2019-10-13 12:03:04

Barbarian3165
Completely Blotto
Registered: 2015-02-11
Posts: 299

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

So, new question...  Remember David's second or was it his third case as a Rimohr intern where that scroll was stolen from that museum?  Any chance that has something to do with the "Primal Aegis"?  Maybe David should take a better look at that thing, hmm?  Just postulating here and hope it isn't too big of a spoiler.

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#268 2019-10-13 18:49:14

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 4577
Website

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Josh.Bond wrote:

B.S.= Bull Shit, M.S.= More Shit, PhD= Piled Higher and Deeper.

I guess that means that MD = Massive Diarrhea?  misch_smiley

Barbarian:

Don't you think that would be a super-huge, colossal, rather hard to swallow plot device?

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
----
Please don't be an asshole to me, because then I'll have to be an asshole to you... and I'm MUCH better at being an asshole than you are.

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#269 2019-10-14 01:33:01

darthel0101
Wasted
Registered: 2013-08-18
Posts: 168

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

I'm just wondering why David hasn't deliberately "failed" a conjure or two -- something like a 1in-1.5in sized globe containing concentrated HNO3 conjured into the base of the skull just above the juncture of the medulla and the spinal cord. The acid in the globe makes it so that even if the victim is saved by another conjurer removing the globe (and maybe even the fluid inside), they can't be saved due to the tissue damage caused by the rapid acidic attack in the confined space.

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#270 2019-10-15 16:56:07

Barbarian3165
Completely Blotto
Registered: 2015-02-11
Posts: 299

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Eric Storm wrote:

Barbarian:

Don't you think that would be a super-huge, colossal, rather hard to swallow plot device?

Eric Storm

But you'd still make us eat it, Eric.  3droll  Besides, you've already foreshadowed this quest... I just should of seen it sooner.  So, a talk to the nut job that tried to steal that journal wouldn't be out of line, in my opinion and David might just gain some clues of where to go and whom to talk to.  Hmm, wondering if the firebird that had an agreement with the Woodward family might be guarding the elemental fire piece.  misch_smiley  An actual read through of all the journals might be boring for us reading the story, but enlightening for David... I'm sure you'll figure it out for us. 3dcool

Last edited by Barbarian3165 (2019-10-15 16:57:51)

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#271 2019-10-15 17:17:16

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 4577
Website

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Um... The Journal of Aleutia has NOTHING to do with elemandy, in any specific way.  Why would you think it does?  Because some moron who was trying to steal it thought it held some secret to controlling the elements?  Do you put yourself in the class of people who believe conspiracy theories?

The journal is... a JOURNAL.  It is a detailed log of Aleutia's life.  The one piece of the journal we know about covered spellcasting, not elemandy.  Which is not to say there isn't some elemandy information in there, since Aleutia seemed to record whatever he came across, but there is no specific focus on it, obviously, or there wouldn't have been an entire scroll of spells included.

Further, if the primal aegis had been mentioned in any recognizable way in the journal, someone would have found it a long, long time ago, as hundreds of wizards have read through the entire journal.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
----
Please don't be an asshole to me, because then I'll have to be an asshole to you... and I'm MUCH better at being an asshole than you are.

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#272 2019-10-15 19:02:40

Barbarian3165
Completely Blotto
Registered: 2015-02-11
Posts: 299

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

I was thinking more in line of it would give David clues as to whom he should talk to in order to complete his quest.  After all, it does document where he went and it sounded like he traveled the world.  But no, I'm not a conspiracy theorist... I just like throwing out shit and stirring it into the pot.

Also, that was only one of the scrolls... wasn't it?

Last edited by Barbarian3165 (2019-10-15 19:40:17)

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#273 2019-10-15 23:05:48

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 4577
Website

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Yes, it was just one of the scrolls.  We can assume (since it's a journal) that it occurred at a point where Aleutia had come into contact with a master spellcaster (otherwise, where'd he learn all those spells at once?).

Theoretically, it would be possible that something in the journal might point David toward a specific direction, but it is highly unlikely that he would have the time to read through it, as it is very long.  (It's a journal of a man's entire life, after all...)

There's also the issue of, everything that Aleutia talks about in his journal is centuries old.  The likelihood of finding any group he wrote of is pretty remote.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
----
Please don't be an asshole to me, because then I'll have to be an asshole to you... and I'm MUCH better at being an asshole than you are.

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#274 2019-10-23 01:00:57

aquintel
Tipsy
Registered: 2013-02-22
Posts: 4

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Nothing fancy, just an Wikipedia excerpt under "pneumothorax":

"A traumatic pneumothorax may result from either blunt trauma or penetrating injury to the chest wall. The most common mechanism is due to the penetration of sharp bony points at a new rib fracture, which damages lung tissue. Traumatic pneumothorax may also be observed in those exposed to blasts, even though there is no apparent injury to the chest.

They may be classified as "open" or "closed". In an open pneumothorax there is a passage from the external environment into the pleural space through the chest wall. When air is drawn into the pleural space through this passageway it is known as a sucking chest wound." (the lung collapses in the affected side)

"The thoracic cavity is the space inside the chest that contains the lungs, heart, and numerous major blood vessels. On each side of the cavity, a pleural membrane covers the surface of lung (visceral pleura) and also lines the inside of the chest wall (parietal pleura). Normally, the two layers are separated by a small amount of lubricating serous fluid. The lungs are fully inflated within the cavity because the pressure inside the airways is higher than the pressure inside the pleural space. Despite the low pressure in the pleural space, air does not enter it because there are no natural connections to an air-containing passage, and the pressure of gases in the bloodstream is too low for them to be forced into the pleural space. Therefore, a pneumothorax can only develop if air is allowed to enter, through damage to the chest wall or damage to the lung itself, or occasionally because microorganisms in the pleural space produce gas.

Chest-wall defects are usually evident in cases of injury to the chest wall, such as stab or bullet wounds ("open pneumothorax")."

As I told Mr. Storm previously in private, I won't start a pissing contest, but if you do care about the truth, just look for it. Irony about someone's job may be funny, but doesn't apply to determine what is right.

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#275 2019-10-23 02:19:51

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 4577
Website

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

So, you don't want to start a pissing contest, but A FULL MONTH AFTER THE DISCUSSION HAS ENDED, you decide to bring it up again?  Hate to tell you, but you just justified the snark directed at you, as it makes you look both insecure and condescending.

I will give this last word on it, and it had better be the last word:  The information you quoted does not support your assertion, which was that a tear to the diaphragm will prevent the victim from breathing at all.  In fact, your quote does not even mention the diaphragm.  It refers to the pleura... and it STILL does not stipulate that breathing cannot occur at all.  I notice you stopped your quote before the following information in the same article:

Wikipedia wrote:

Tension pneumothorax occurs when the opening that allows air to enter the pleural space functions as a one-way valve, allowing more air to enter with every breath but none to escape. The body compensates by increasing the respiratory rate and tidal volume (size of each breath), worsening the problem. Unless corrected, hypoxia (decreased oxygen levels) and respiratory arrest eventually follow.

Note how it says respiratory arrest will eventually follow?  So, gee, they must be capable of breathing, albeit poorly, while having a tear in the pleura.  Your assertion was, and I quote:

aquintel wrote:

if  you rip  the muscular membrana that is the diaphragm,  breathing doesn't occur.

Your own debate evidence disproves your assertion.  It says, very plainly, that a victim can breathe with a pneumothorax, for at least some period of time.  The breathing will be labored and will grow worse, but breathing will occur, contrary to the assertion you made.  In other words:

You Were Wrong.

Insisting you're right... doesn't make it so.

Now, this discussion is closed.  It is closed because I say it is closed.  There is nothing further to be gained from this discussion except for more hostility.  You are clearly unwilling to admit your error, and I have no reason to listen to you any further, given that you are submitting evidence of your error all by yourself.

Eric Storm

PS:  Ignoring or disputing my assertion that this discussion is closed is a good way to terminate your tenure at this website.


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
----
Please don't be an asshole to me, because then I'll have to be an asshole to you... and I'm MUCH better at being an asshole than you are.

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