The Pub Discussion Board

davidl150 · 2009-06-06 23:11:08

Ok, here's my rant. And it's a good one for the authors who should know better but don't seem to have a little common sense.

My issue:
I read CAMP when Camp was at Chapter 3. I waited for Chapter 4. Then well, I figured like alot of authors, You didn't finish your story.
After Years, Finally recently, I decided to reread camp on asstr and of course, loving the story still, I start searching and found Chapter 5, 6, and 7. But that's all. Google and Yahoo search engines, don't always turn up the results that you want.

Then finally today, I find this site. (And yes, laughs, I had a little problem for about 15 seconds with your site. and after I finish catching up on one of my all time favorite stories, I'll give you a review of your site and what I think might help it).

My common sense says:
If you know that a portion of your series is posted on a site. And that site is still active and updatable, then why not post a new chapter (such as Chapter 5 where Chapter 4 is the last one, that only contains where Chapter 5+ is located so that people can finish reading the story.

My FYI:
I know that you know about asstr. And CAMP is located in at least three locations on asstr. Krysteins(1-4), mcstories(1-4), and then a last one that I can't remember, which has Camp 1-7.

Update: Ooops, It's Part 1-4 not chapter 1-4 & 1-7. After YEARS of waiting, I finally got to read the end of the story.

And I have several Favorite stories that are incomplete series. And each time, that I do find one that I really like, I do say this same thing to the author.

Last edited by davidl150 (2009-06-07 02:43:11)

Eric Storm · 2009-06-07 03:26:04

Okay, and here's the answer to your rant:

1. MCStories: I don't post to EMCSA anymore because I felt that Simon's policies were applied inconsistently and rather hypocritically. He will not accept any of my stories that contain serious underage sex... yet has never pulled CAMP chapters 1-19, which contain a 10-year-old engaging in repeated, explicit sexual conduct. When Simon rejected Program Alpha-Omega, whose youngest character is 13, I decided not to bother with EMCSA anymore. HOWEVER, had you looked up the author info for Net Wolf at EMCSA... IT HAS THIS WEBSITE LISTED! And it has had that information since December, 2006, when The Mystic Wolf Pub opened!

2. ASSTR: While you might think I know every Tom, Dick, and Jenny that decides they like my story enough to post it, the fact is that ALMOST NO ONE contacts me to ask permission to do so. So, NO, I don't know where the pieces of my story are posted. I don't go looking for them.

3. CAMP was originally posted on USENET. If you (or anyone reading this response) is unfamiliar with Usenet, it is essentially one big message board, with thousands of different "newsgroups" where anyone can post pretty much anything. Up to at least chapter 19, I didn't even HAVE a website.

4. Most of the places that I have officially posted my story, I have either closed my accounts with them, had them closed on me, or the site itself no longer exists. I have no control over, and in most cases, no knowledge of, where bits and pieces of my story get posted. There are still places where CAMP is attributed to WhiteStar, my first penname, that I stopped using in 2000.

5. You claim that Google doesn't deliver the results you want, but if I type "CAMP Net Wolf" into a Google search box, the VERY FIRST RESULT leads to this website.

6. My little rant to you: STOP FUCKING WHINING. The authors on the Internet provide you with story material free of any monetary requirement. You have NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to demand one single thing of any of us. We spend hours, days, weeks, months, and years of our lives, working on these stories, and putting them out to the public, where we get damned little in return except for a shitload of emails demanding more. I have been writing stories on the Internet for nearly twelve years now, and I have made... maybe three or four thousand dollars, total, over that time. Because of that, I am probably one of the BEST PAID Internet authors! That is thanks to the donations I receive from some very generous fans who, unlike you, are at least a little grateful for the work we, as authors, put into the job.

7. I'll listen to your suggestions for fixing this website when you provide some credentials as to why the fuck I should listen to you. So far, all I've seen is a petulant child whining for another cookie. Don't flame me or my authors again, EVER, or you won't need to worry about how this website functions, because you will be banned from it. Yes, I do accept constructive criticism. YOUR message had nothing constructive in it, whatsoever. I have taken all of the steps I actually can to promote and advertise this site. Doing so actually cost me my SOL account (though I was going to close it soon thereafter anyway, Lazeez "saved me the trouble"). Perhaps, just perhaps, before you blame US for YOUR lack of ability to find us, you should actually put forth a little bit of effort. Instead, the very first thing you say to anyone on this website isn't "Thanks for giving me a story for free!", or even a polite, 'Hey, will you be continuing your story soon?" No, your introduction to this community, the very first thing out of your mouth is "You slackers need to make sure that I will always be able to find your work without lifting a finger!" Know what? Screw you.

Eric Storm
Founder, The Mystic Wolf Pub
Annoyed Author of CAMP: Ron's Journey, CAMP: Sibling Rivalry et al.

PS: PAY ATTENTION TO MY SIGNATURE.

Neitherspace · 2009-06-09 02:22:46

now don't hold back Eric tell us how you really Feel 3dtongue

Eric Storm · 2009-06-09 02:37:42

Neitherspace: You don't really want to know how I REALLY feel about this kind of thing.

Eric

davidl150 · 2009-06-09 02:49:08

Laughs..... Yeap, it's free stories. Yeah, I WAS considering donating to you for the great story. I may still do it.

And Yes, I have worked on websites for 20+ years. AND If SEVERAL people complain about the same thing, Then maybe YOU should listen and INVESTIGATE rather than ASKING for my creditials. Personally, I spend the time to figure out how the "webmaster" thinks so that I can navigate their site with little difficulty. But Other people sometimes don't and get confused. And I offered it based on the fact that SEVERAL other people said that they had difficulties and YOU asked where the difficulties were. So, I was going to spend MY time trying to help other people and you. If you didn't like my suggestions, then you wouldn't have had to impliment them. But since, YOU don't want them, then I won't bother.

And Childish Bitching, Get a grip. I was POLITE about everything I said, but were YOU? Yes, I was critical, but polite at the same time. Can you say the same thing? And I even warned you that I was on a rant.

And the "suggestion" was also to help you get people to join your website. Where, people who are looking for it, and may find it, but don't figure that you've finished it because there is NOTHING else listed. And May follow the story on to your site. Thus may decide that they like the story enough to give you money.
But if they only see your story on other sites, then they may never even look for your site. Then there is ABSOLUTELY no possibility that they may donate money.

As PEOPLE said back in the OLD Days of the Internet on USENET. WAIT before you immediately respond. Especially if you give a knee jerk reaction that seems ANGRY.

nightsecho · 2009-06-09 06:19:14

thats not how this works heres how it works

you make a post that pisses eric off he fires back then the offending person never posts again

if we're changing things could some one let me know i'm so confused 3dsmile

Eric Storm · 2009-06-09 06:23:22

David: Go fuck yourself.

I have spent the last seven years dealing with people JUST LIKE YOU. People who think their way is the only right way. Guess what? You're wrong. Was my response angry? Yes, it was. Was my response also MEASURED? Yes, it was. Had I told you what I really thought, you would have known better than to respond. So, let me tell you now what I really think, so that you will SHUT THE FUCK UP:

You are an arrogant, selfish, whining little ASSHOLE. Your initial post was INSULTING. (Pay attention: You said that every author who doesn't do things YOUR WAY has no "common sense". Obviously, if there are SO many of us not doing it YOUR way, then YOUR WAY IS NOT COMMON SENSE, BY DEFINITION.)

No, your post was NOT polite, because you laid blame on someone other than yourself, which is where the problem ACTUALLY LIES. You are unwilling to put forth any effort whatsoever in order to find FREE entertainment. Chances are, I would not have gotten DECENT feedback from you on anything (Your feedback on C:RJ was completely useless; you seemed to be talking to everyone BUT me...)

More to the point, when your first post EVER to a community is a whining complaint, that, IN AND OF ITSELF, is impolite. You don't make your introduction to ANY community by saying, "Hi, you don't know me from Adam, but the way you're doing things is all wrong."

And... you have 20+ years of experience with websites? This is a neat trick on your part, since the World Wide Web HAS NOT YET EXISTED FOR TWENTY YEARS. It became publicly available in 1991, a mere 18 years ago. The proposal for it wasn't even written up until 1989, and the first web server did not go active until 1990. Do you really feel the need to boost your ego by lying? And I honestly don't give a rat's ass if you somehow have 50 years of experience: It doesn't give you permission to whine and assume that you are right.

No, you were not polite in your initial post. You made assumptions that were inaccurate, and decided to blame other people for YOUR problems. The following was in your second sentence, EVER, on this forum: "...who should know better but don't seem to have a little common sense." That is immeasurably rude behavior. Anyone with COMMON SENSE would know that you don't do the equivalent of calling someone an idiot, when you don't even know them. How did you EXPECT this remark to be taken? Did you expect someone to say, "Gee, Dave, thank you so much for telling me I have no common sense, and that I must do things your way to be right!" ? Sorry, doesn't work that way around here. Before you tell someone on THIS forum that your way is "The One True Way", you have to prove that you have this community's interest, and not just YOUR OWN, at heart. You do that by giving feedback to the authors, or maybe engaging in a conversation or two, before you decide to take it upon yourself to bitch at us because we don't live up to your expectations. You do it by offering a polite suggestion, rather than imperiously telling everyone that the way they do things doesn't live up to your standards. You do it by being a part of the community, not some imperious, pompous ass. That's MY job, and I EARNED that position by putting in years of effort. What have you done, HERE, to earn the right to bitch?

Am I an arrogant, rude, annoying, loud, and profane sonofabitch? Yes, I am. People just like you made me that way. Ask those who have known me for several years. I was a much gentler person when I opened EWP back in 2002. Then I met people like you: People whose only objective seems to be displaying their own self-importance by telling everyone else how things MUST be done. I've met lots of them, and after a while, you start to develop a mindset about them. Here is that mindset, in a nutshell:

Fuck off, asshole. You aren't doing the work, and you aren't contributing to the community. We don't need you here.

And a last piece of not-so-friendly advice: Consider this issue closed, or I will close the issue for you. I don't have to be nice to you. I don't have to let you speak. You have no RIGHTS here; you only have privileges, and if you continue to piss me off, I will remove those privileges from you. This is MY HOME, and you don't come into my home and piss on the carpet!

Eric Storm
The Guy Who Runs The Place.

PS: I do not need or want YOUR money. No amount of money is worth putting up with you. Go Away.

LAoW · 2009-06-09 06:30:37

/me giggles uncontrollably.

halmir · 2009-06-09 13:07:10

David,

I am in complete agreement with Eric on this issue and I do not have a horse in this race. Your original and subsequent reply to Eric's original reply come across as completely childish. You rant and rave about how you cannot find what you want on the Internet as if Eric has complete knowledge and control over all the websites in the world. You also insult every single person's intelligence by talking about how if authors had a little common sense, when they do not control everything in the world, as well. If you had EVEN A SHRED of common sense, you would have NEVER posted your complaint. Now, if you do have 20+ years of Internet knowledge, then you would have known better in the first place. I have been reading Usenet newsgroups since 1991, and I have had to search for stories that I did not know where they were. In fact, I was lucky enough to find most of them in archives and authors' individual sites.

Neitherspace · 2009-06-10 05:00:52

*tosses David some ointment for Burns*

David seriously either send Eric some links for sites you run AND shut the fuck up

I know from experience he's holding back

LAoW · 2009-06-10 18:40:05

/me continues to giggle uncontrollably.

unknown1000u2 · 2009-06-11 02:35:58

I'll expand on one of Eric's points - we write our stories because we like to write and have something to tell. It better not be for feedback, especially good feedback, because it seldom comes. I get maybe 10 e-mails each time I post a chapter. I know more read it than that, because the one time I asked for feedback on whether I should continue or not, I got 130 e-mails. Lest anyone think when they read this that the lack of feedback is due to inferior stories, let me fill you in on some facts: My stories on SOL ( I only use it because it has a rating system) are consistently in the low and middle 9's on that site. They were middle and high 9's before Lazeez fucked up his scoring system to make the people that can't write feel better by reducing the good scores. So, my only point here is that the lack of feedback is not because the stories are not good... it's because most people simply don't give feedback. I'm guilty of it too sometimes.

Oh, but if there is something not quite to their taste, man do you get the bad feedback! I once had someone score one of my stories as a 5-4-2 on Lazeez's TPA system. First of all, if the Appeal to them was a 2, why the hell were they reading the story anyway? I don't hold back codes to trick people into reading it. Secondly, my technical merit is 9 on every story I've done except the first one (an 8). Nine is as high as you can get - a 10 is virtually impossible because of his screwy system. Now, it doesn't matter if you like my writing subject or not, no one with any sense of English would give it a 5. Maybe I'm being egotistical, but if you're going to give my writing a 5, you better explain it, because I gots gooder Anglish than most peoples and I gots an axellant Aditor! Ok, now THAT might be a 5!

So I agree with what Eric said... if you're not going to provide some constructive feedback on an author's work, then don't respond at all. Constructive doesn't have to mean 'good'. Don't like my stories? Tell me why. You might have a valid point. I might even make some changes in future chapters or stories if you're point is valid enough. I'm not so egotistical to think that I can't learn. But if it's so damned bad you can't find anything good, or constructive, to say, stop reading it.

Sometimes stories are no longer posted on a website for good reasons. One website I posted my stories on, the readers politely told me it was very good, but didn't really belong on that site. It was a valid point, so I stopped it. Several readers looked until they found it on a more suitasble site.

I stopped posting on ASSTR because the posting process there is so damned complex and requires so much after downloading reformatting that it's just not worth it. I won't read a story that posts as one long paragraph with no breaks and I dont expect others to either.

This is not intended as a flame to those that don't give feedback. That's your right. All I ask is that you recognize it's my right to post or not... and when. Don't like that? The best way you have to influence that is to give feedback. That's all we get out of it.

Unknown1000u2

Last edited by unknown1000u2 (2009-06-11 02:36:49)

nightsecho · 2009-06-11 05:22:41

unknown1000u2 wrote:
I won't read a story that posts as one long paragraph with no breaks and I dont expect others to either.Unknown1000u2

i agree my eyes just blur and i lose my place i usually just skip these

Nadez · 2009-07-01 10:54:57

I have only just recently begun posting in the Forum similar to Dave..yet when I came upon this topic and read his post I was shocked..astounded why on earth would you come to somones home..and show your immense stupidity like that? however I grew to LOVE this topic as I read Eric's posts.. I must say that I completely agree with LaWow on this *GIGGLES his head off* (forgive me for spelling your name wrong im immensly tired and I cant seem to figure out how to get the captials and the letters in the right order yet I couldnt wait for morn to post this) I almost fell off my chair when I began reading Eric's posts back to this Dave person..KUDO's to you Eric BRAVO because..it was simply hilarious how well you put him in his place (I think I may be sounding slightly sarcasmy, Note thats NOT my intention im tired. and i think it was hilarious how Eric put this inbred idiot in his place..no sarcasm! ) ...now as for Mr Unkowns post..I postively love to give good feedback I love too send an author *Continue*

Nadez · 2009-07-01 10:58:58

*continues* I love giving mY feed back and I do so in the most Legible and nice way I can and as such I think perhaps our friend Dave could have tried saying..." Oh my heck I finally found this place! Eric I have been a fan of your work for a very long time and have wished to get ahold of it but I had a brain fart and couldnt find you for an eternity I finally did and I must say I am so pleased to have found this site it was so frustrating not to be able to find you! I just wish everyone would credit the author and leave a place to contact HIM or her and not just them!" in my Lowly opnion that would have been a much better topic for our esteemed Eric to read.. anyway thats what I think and I couldnt resist saying it all because..thats what I do. I say what I think and I speak kindly most of the time. if I dont like something..I say so..but not in a Stupid way like dave did. in closing....DAVE IS STUPID. ALL HAIL ERIC STORM!!..hehe..bit overboard I know but I couldnt resist

LAoW · 2009-07-01 19:28:43

Nadez wrote:
*continues* I love giving mY feed back and I do so in the most Legible and nice way I can and as such I think perhaps our friend Dave could have tried saying..." Oh my heck I finally found this place! Eric I have been a fan of your work for a very long time and have wished to get ahold of it but I had a brain fart and couldnt find you for an eternity I finally did and I must say I am so pleased to have found this site it was so frustrating not to be able to find you! I just wish everyone would credit the author and leave a place to contact HIM or her and not just them!" in my Lowly opnion that would have been a much better topic for our esteemed Eric to read.. anyway thats what I think and I couldnt resist saying it all because..thats what I do. I say what I think and I speak kindly most of the time. if I dont like something..I say so..but not in a Stupid way like dave did. in closing....DAVE IS STUPID. ALL HAIL ERIC STORM!!..hehe..bit overboard I know but I couldnt resist

Hehehe...it's alright about the spelling/capitals thing. And at least I'm not the only one amused by our Eric's tongue lashing. Muhahahaha!

Nadez · 2009-07-01 23:50:48

Who wouldnt be? it was utterly Awesome ive never seen anyone lashed that badly before totally made my Night

The Pub Discussion Board

#1 2009-06-06 23:11:08

Why Authors don't advertise their series new location??

#2 2009-06-07 03:26:04

Re: Why Authors don't advertise their series new location??

#3 2009-06-09 02:22:46

Re: Why Authors don't advertise their series new location??

#4 2009-06-09 02:37:42

Re: Why Authors don't advertise their series new location??

#5 2009-06-09 02:49:08

Re: Why Authors don't advertise their series new location??

#6 2009-06-09 06:19:14

Re: Why Authors don't advertise their series new location??

#7 2009-06-09 06:23:22

Re: Why Authors don't advertise their series new location??

#8 2009-06-09 06:30:37

Re: Why Authors don't advertise their series new location??

#9 2009-06-09 13:07:10

Re: Why Authors don't advertise their series new location??

#10 2009-06-10 05:00:52

Re: Why Authors don't advertise their series new location??

#11 2009-06-10 18:40:05

Re: Why Authors don't advertise their series new location??

#12 2009-06-11 02:35:58

Re: Why Authors don't advertise their series new location??

#13 2009-06-11 05:22:41

Re: Why Authors don't advertise their series new location??

unknown1000u2 wrote:

#14 2009-07-01 10:54:57

Re: Why Authors don't advertise their series new location??

#15 2009-07-01 10:58:58

Re: Why Authors don't advertise their series new location??

#16 2009-07-01 19:28:43

Re: Why Authors don't advertise their series new location??

Nadez wrote:

#17 2009-07-01 23:50:48

Re: Why Authors don't advertise their series new location??

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