The Pub Discussion Board

I'm not sure I should post this. I'm pretty sure I'll not take it any further than this. But sometimes a guy's gotta get something off his chest.


If somebody who disagrees with me doesn't want to listen to me, fine. I can appreciate that. There's one of me and over six billion not-me, and I lack the temporal and mental capacity to grant them all unlimited audience.

But if somebody who disagrees with me says I don't have a right to think and share my thoughts with anyone willing to listen, then we have a problem.

Thinking is my religion. Critical thinking, creative thinking, passionate thinking, even irrational thinking and overwhelming emotional thinking. I believe I have the right to practice my religion, even to promote it. (Yeah, I know, I've not been a very good thinker lately; I will try to do better.)

One of the beliefs of my religion is that there is no one true religion -- not in the sense of absolute exclusion. You have your space and I mustn't take it away, even if I think you're nuts.

But that shall not come at the expense of all of my space. I don't need a lot of space, and if I get greedy about it and I'm really cramping your style, let's try to work something out. Because if you try to tell me it's all your space and I must become you, if you throw down the gauntlet that only one of us can exist, you'll find me fierce and unrelenting.

So, not to end on a closed-minded and callous note, but a word to the Christian warriors who must express their belief in the denial of mine:

Go to Heaven.

And don't let the Pearly Gates hit your ass on the way in.

I'm Mormon, and the Church of Latter-Day Saints' official position is that gay marriage is against the word of God.  However, the Church's official position on other people's opinions is that they have the right to them and to their own beliefs, they are just misguided.  As for those that want to deny other people the right to their own opinions and beliefs, they will go before God and be judged as they have judged others.  Which means their opinions and beliefs will be turned against them and they will be told by Jesus, "I do not know you, and you do not know me."  This will then result with them being placed in a lesser kingdom and not being able to be with or to be like God.  We are all mortal and imperfect, sins are mistakes that if we pray to God and ask for forgiveness; he will forgive us.  However, we must try to stop the sinful behavior and strive to be like God.  We are here to learn how to be like God and to learn from our mistakes.  I have tried my best to remember the LDS's official positon on everything, but I converted to Mormonism only 4 years ago this coming May.  I am not perfect, nor do I expect anyone else to be perfect.  But, I hope that I am and will do well enough in life to live in the Celestial Kingdom and not in the Telestial or Terrestrial kingdoms and certainly not the everlasting darkness.

Another thing is that we are taught that each of the other churches/religions has a part of the truth but not the whole truth.  We believe that revelation still occurs which is why our church President is also called the Prophet.  He is the only one in the Church that can set Church policies; however, those policies must be ratified by the Council of the Twelve Apostles and then by each individual Ward, I believe.

LAoW wrote:

So...upon this topic, this has always kinda' made me wonder. I don't want to step on toes and I certainly don't want to start anything here, but I am sooooo curious about this. How can someone be very religious and still come to this site and read what's here? Halmir, you sound like a very pious person. Do you read the stories here? If so, do you worry about the sins you're committing? I'm totally being curious about this. It's just something I've wondered about. If you don't want to discuss it, hey. It's cool and I understand. But I'd love this question answered from someone who is deeply religious and reads stories here on this site.

Truth be told, I was not very religious until I converted to Mormonism.  I had read several of Eric's stories before I joined the LDS in May 2005.  Plus, I like good stories whether they have sex in them or not.  This is something that I shouldn't be doing as the Church's official position is that pornography in ALL of its forms is sinful.  So, yes, I do worry a lot about the sins that I am committing.  However, God has a lot of patience, and he knows that I get addicted to things (other than drugs and alcohol) easily.  I am a borderline gambling addict and am an addict to pornography, although I am slowly getting better with it.  I do skip a lot of sex in most stories that I read; because I tend to be more interested in the characters and storyline.  However, there are many stories where the sex is central to the storyline and character development.

The LDS missionaries and the church do teach that we need to stop any sinful actions once we confess.  However, I have been told by a couple of bishops that it is a process and can take a long time before someone is actually able to stop their sinful behaviors.  My addiction to pornography falls into that category.

I joined the LDS for several reasons.  I had been fighting a battle with cancer at the time.  I had a rare bone cancer called Ewing's Sarcoma that has only 2 stages.  It sits in one place or spreads like wildfire.  It, also, normally affects teenagers and I was 29 when I was diagnosed with it in 2002.  I ended up joining eHarmony and met my wife through there in 2004 and she was a member of the LDS all her life.  She knows about my struggles with pornography.  Plus, on a subconscious level, I had always been drawn towards Mormonism when it was mentioned in stories and history books.  Before I joined, I had been baptized as an Episcopalian.  However, my family drifted away from being Episcopalian due to a fight between my mom's church and my dad's church over who was to baptize my brother and sister.

I hope this answers your questions.  Remember, we are all sinners and we are here to learn to be like God.  That is the main point of all of our trials.

If you read something that's labeled pornography, and yet you're reading it for reasons other than sexual arousal or prurience... then it's not pornography anymore, is it?

It might still be erotic, in the sense that (perhaps among other things) it's describing sexual love, but if you're not reading it to provoke a sexual response (physical or otherwise) then for you it's not pornography.

Last edited by Imagineer (2009-04-27 18:26:14)

I don't think anybody is going to be surprised to find out I support gay marriage   But you might be surprised a little to find out I'm a religious person.  Not counting me I know one gay Christian and one who is bi.  I know at least three straight Christians who support the right of gays to marry, and things seem to be slowly changing for the better here.  I know that right now I have to move out of state before I can marry the guy I love, and if we came back home our marriage wouldn't count.  Things seem to be changing though, and the law that doesn't allow gay marriage might get repealed some day.  I hope to be there to see it.

I agree with your sentiment, LAoW, the only problem is that, from the self-righteous asshole's point of view, what those other people are doing IS causing harm to them and their immortal soul.  Hence, their objection.

If we could just get them to realize that freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion are the same thing...

Eric

Hey, now there's an idea! 

Seriously, though...  I have long said that what needs to happen is to separate the religious from the civil.  I believe that what we now call a "marriage license" needs to become a "contract of civil union".  And it should not need the signature of a freakin' minister!

Civil union should be the standard LEGAL relationship, and it then has nothing to do with gender:  man and woman, woman and woman, man and man, man and monkey... whoops, okay, maybe not that last one....

Marriage, on the other hand, should be a religious ceremony, consecrating, not creating, the legal union between the two people.  You shouldn't need a license from the state to perform a marriage.  It is an agreement between two people and their God, and if He is okay with it, then nobody else should be saying boo about it.  Likewise, if someone wants to be civilly united, but has no need of a wedding ceremony, that's none of our damned business.

I also have no issue, under this system, with people getting married, without being under a civil union.  For fiscal reasons, I can't get married (current definition) unless I find a source of income other than my disability check.  But that doesn't mean I wouldn't want something to say to my partner that I am committed to them.

So, in short, I think it's the terminology that is getting in our way.  "Marriage" has such a strong connotation in our society that I don't think we're going to get past the emotional barrier it causes.  Change the words, and you remove a lot of the emotion, and it may be a lot easier to get things passed.

Eric

Just my $1.50  (Inflation's a bitch...)

Now my thoughts are "Organized religion fucking sucks". May you all rot in the hells of your imaginations.

LAoW wrote:

Now my thoughts are "Organized religion fucking sucks". May you all rot in the hells of your imaginations.

Before I joined the LDS, I would have agreed with you, LAoW.  However, the LDS does not have a paid clergy.  Each member of the church has jobs outside of church duties and are all expected but not required to pay 1/10 of their increase to the church for temples, church buildings, and other expenses.  Missionaries are expected to pay for their own missions, but are restricted on what they can take with them.  We are also expected to donate money for helping the poor by fasting and paying a "fast offering" which can be any amount.  Many members actually pay a lot of money for the fast offering, but once again it is not required.  As for imagination, when I first received the Book of Mormon from my wife; I just held it and could feel the truth that it contains.

Another page from my friend's website in Deviant Art. It tells, in nice basic terms, of why Obama's school speech bombed so bad. If you go there and decide to reply, keep it friendly. His page is not there for flames and such.

http://spacewolfomega.deviantart.com/ar … -136384984

The problem, LA, is that "hurting anyone" is a very subjective term.  What constitutes "hurt"?

To a Fundamentalist Christian, anything that jeopardizes your immortal soul [TM] is doing immense "hurt"... and therein lies the rub.

The fact is that "Freedom OF Religion" also means "Freedom FROM Religion" seems to be lost on most folks.

Eric

lordalpha wrote:

Pardon my early morning ranting of course!

You are not pardoned because you, Sir, offend me! (j/k)