The Pub Discussion Board

Right off, I have no experience with police procedure but I HAVE to take a shot at this.

Example One:
Logically, the best thing for the cop to do would be to first, call for backup. There is enough evidence laying around, in the open, to show that SOMETHING violent has happened at the farmhouse. Back up is always good. The more guns, the easier it is to put down the psychopath.

Once back up has arrived, a search of the yard, the barn and the house would seem the next move looking for the one committing the violence, witnesses, survivors or victims. IF victims are found, call in EMS and detectives. If the interior of the house shows signs of violence but no victims, survivors or madmen, call in detectives and the forensic crimnalogists (CSI) and let them try to figure out what happened.

Second example:
First, go on the assumption that the hit and run victim was wrongly pronounced dead. I don't THINK this would be a criminal investigation, probably more along the lines of a "who fucked up the most?" investigation probably conducted by the hospital as well as whoever is in charge of the EMS responders.

A second investigation would also be launched in trying to find the apparently alive victim. First to make sure the victim doesn't need any medical attention. Protect and serve and all that. Second to find out what he/she may be able to tell about the accident and the person/car that hit him/her and third to get positive identification of the victim, if for no other reason than to put a name in the police report, not to mention insurance, the hospital bill and other such materialistic ideas.

Just my opinion. Just what seems logical to me.

Hope that helps some.

-Jeff

Do you think they'd wait to tell about the dinosaur until they had a corpse on their hands just to avoid, not only the mass hysteria it would cause, but also to avoid being laughed at by the cynics?

Instead of saying "dinosaur" would they just put it down some "Unknown animal" or would they maybe say something like "It appears to be a large three-toed sloth?"

I keep waiting for aliens to arrive on this planet just to see what the police and government do. Damn aliens are taking their time though.

Jefferson:

As I said, they would not announce a conclusion until they had evidence.  And they would need to present that evidence to the public at the time of the announcement.

Until they could prove what it was, I imagine it would simply be labeled "a bipedal, three-toed, dangerous animal approximately the size of a man."  (Or however big it was.  Size can be determined by stride length)  I'm sure there would be speculation about what it was, but I doubt that it would EVER get labeled a "dinosaur".  At most, it would be called "something resembling a dinosaur", unless they caught it and proved it had paleo-DNA.

Net Wolf

To Neitherspace, Ouch, that was a lucky fellow.  I reckon that scared the ME.  I know I'd be scared in his or her place.  I'd probably end up wondering "How many living people have I autopsied to death without ever knowing it?" 

On a happier note, this topic is fun (at least to me).  I wonder if it would be worthwhile to come up with more "What if?" scenarios?

Net Wolf wrote:

Scenario 1:
The three-toed prints would be photographed, and probably plaster-casted.  Initial theory would probably be that they are a special shoe to hide the killer's identity. Net Wolf

Greetings

Saw a picture in the evidence pile of a shoe that the "Una-Bomber" made to make his footprint appear smaller than his actual shoe size.

I'm guessing the cops cling to human with "fake shoes" and "fake claws" mimicing animal attack story as long as possible.  At least until a whole bunch of DNA comes back to lay irrefutable evidence of bad animal

So the question for the cops and civil authoritues.  Which causes less panic:  Crazy Person mimics animal to kill family or Previously unknown animal slaughters family?

I'm still guessing cops cling to human actor story at least in public...

Enjoy the journey

WarLord

Warlord:  He said GOOD cops.  Good cops follow the evidence, not their own pet theory.  If the ME says, "These are animal claw and fang marks", a GOOD cop will say, "Then he was killed by an animal.  Any idea what kind?"

Also keep in mind that your average cop - even a good one - probably isn't aware that theropod footprints are unheard of in contemporary animals outside class Aves, so they might not be all that resistant to "some unknown dangerous animal did this."

"Killer ostriches on the loose?  News at 11..." 

Net Wolf

Net Wolf wrote:

Warlord:  He said GOOD cops.  Good cops follow the evidence, not their own pet theory.  If the ME says, "These are animal claw and fang marks", a GOOD cop will say, "Then he was killed by an animal.  Any idea what kind?"

Also keep in mind that your average cop - even a good one - probably isn't aware that theropod footprints are unheard of in contemporary animals outside class Aves, so they might not be all that resistant to "some unknown dangerous animal did this."

"Killer ostriches on the loose?  News at 11..." 

Net Wolf

Greetings

In MN, my point of reference, that local constable or "County Mounty" calling for backup is going to get one or more State Patrol rolling to his/her assistance.  Then the site will be examined by BCA technicians using a Mobile Crime Lab (Bureau of Criminal Apprehenson, a state agency)  and think Winnebago sized...  Then given the slaughter I'm guessing the 'Feebs' get a call as well  The State Patrol is a highly professional bunch and the BCA is competent and both are utterly media astute.

Given that I still maintain my assertion, they will be dragged from the theory of a human mimic killer very reluctantly and likely NOT edver in public media unless pressed hard by circumstance.

They will tell the media NADA of crazy ass shit about any theropod or dinosaur killing and warn about a beserk SOB dressed in a huge chicken suit...

The Patrol, BCA, and State Attorney General will work to muzzle the locals who aint likely to want any story of killer dinosaur out on the wires anyway.  Bad for the tourists don't you know

Media will push "hard' for a story in this type of multi killing but its a place they've all been so it might stay under wraps until killing number two or when the obligatory pictures of the killer cruising the woods surface

In MN woodlands little cheap digital cameras triggerd by IR are posted on a lot of trails by hunters scouting for a big trophy buck, they found a mountain lion this year...

Enjoy the journey

WarLord

I repeat, the question asked about a "good" cop.

"Media astute" does NOT equal "good cop".  A good cop goes where the evidence points, REGARDLESS of how "wacky" it may be.  A good cop knows that weird shit can and does happen.  A GOOD COP wants the truth, not his preconceived notion of what happened.

And a GOOD police DEPARTMENT would not want to put out a similarly absurd story about a mass murderer in T. rex slippers any more than they'd want to put out a story concerning an extinct animal.  Also, it should be pointed out that any 1/4-competent forensic examiner can tell the difference between actual animal tracks, and animal-shaped tracks made by shoes, and any decent ME knows what marks made by animal claws and fangs look like, as opposed to a human-made weapon.

I repeat my assertion:  Until they could prove exactly what animal committed the crime, the police department would deliver the following story:

"According to the Medical Examiner, the victims were killed by a large animal of type unknown.  Fang and claw marks on the body rule out human weapons such as knives, clubs, or similar objects.  We urge the public to be on the lookout for any wild animals in their area, and to be especially cautious, even if those animals seem harmless. If you hear an animal prowling on your property at night, do not go to investigate; call 911, and the Sheriff, along with Animal Control, will be dispatched to investigate. Animal tracks were found at the crime scene, but they do not match any of the local wildlife.  Anyone having additional information concerning the attack, or the animal that may have committed the attack, please contact the Bumfuck County Sheriff's Office at 555-PERP."

Net Wolf

*sigh*

You're completely missing the point of my statement.  Political considerations by a police officer automatically make him NOT A GOOD COP.  Worrying about what the media is going to say makes him NOT A GOOD COP.

Did it ever occur to you that, if there was, in fact, a deinonychus-like creature on the loose that had already shown a penchant for killing humans....  A LITTLE HYSTERIA MIGHT BE WARRANTED?????

A good police officer is not worried about advancing his career, looking good on TV, and is sure as HELL not worried about "not alarming the public".  He's worried about the facts of the case, and finding the killer.  Whether that killer is a human or a bright blue wingbat from Betelgeuse VI.  You are confusing the concept of "promotable cop" with GOOD cop.

To Protect and Serve - it's been the motto of many a police force.  You cannot protect people by lying to them.  "Oh, it's just a guy in a chicken suit."  Not helpful when you hear an animal rummaging around in your backyard, now is it?  How does it "serve" the public to misinform them?  Answer: it doesn't.

In today's world, we've become so obsessed with the political notion that "perception IS reality", we've forgotten that there is a REAL reality that usually sneaks up and bites you in the ass while you're worried about people's perceptions.

Also, you assert that hysteria would ensue as soon as someone pointed out that they look like dinosaur tracks.  You've just ruled out your hypothetical captain being a good cop.  My good cop would calmly ask, "So what else can make those kinds of tracks, that might be alive today?"  And your scientist would either say, "I don't know," (smart scientist), or he'd answer "nothing". (dumb scientist, since something obviously made the tracks)

I'm sorry to be so argumentative, but I am fed up to "here" with today's concept that people need to be protected from the truth.  I consider truth to be the greatest gift you can give someone, and I wish that I could expect it from my public servants.  Our politicians and public officials are so interested in just staying in office that they no longer give a flying fuck about actually serving their constituents.  And I'm sorry, but making up some story about what killed the farmers, rather than simply saying it was an animal, is NOT SERVING THE PUBLIC GOOD.  No matter what you tell them, in a rural community of the type described in this story, there is going to be panic: they aren't going to be used to multiple murder going on in their back yard.  In fact, in this scenario, I dare say there would be LESS hysteria from an animal attack: they're farmers and hunters; they are aware of what animals can do to people.

So, I've had my say.  We obviously have different notions of what makes a good cop.  I want one that searches for and actually tells the truth.  You want a politician.  Why you think that makes a good cop, I will never comprehend.

Net Wolf

Those people ARE STILL COPS.

And the people who do what you suggest aren't even CLOSE to being good cops.  Why is it so hard for everyone to understand that just because this is what happens now, that's not the way it SHOULD BE?  "Good cop" does not mean "cop who gets noticed by his boss for being a good political strategist", nor does it mean "cop who can kiss the most ass and make his boss happy by never making the department appear a little strange."  Good cop means cop who actually gets to the truth of the matter, regardless of where that might take him or her.  I freely admit: there are very few good cops in high-ranking management positions anymore; they tend to get shunned by the politicians above them.

Net Wolf

Net,

I understand what you're saying about a good cop and I even agree with it.

It's a Utopian view of things though, don't you think?

Yes, a good cop's first concern should always be truth, or I guess that should be a good Detective's first concern should be the truth. A beat cop's main job I'd say is protection of the citizens entrusted to his care.

Back to the point though.

In today's world, even in the world of 100 or 150 years ago, a cop HAS to play politics. You have to play the game. Not just with the bosses and City Hall but also with the various citizen groups that you're supposed to serve. If you are completely resistant to playing these games, then you will never get the information you need to PREVENT crimes, you would be totally reactive instead of proactive. You may even have trouble solving crimes since you can't get informants to tell you what they know.  You have to play politics, you have to play the game. If the boss tells you to do something, whether he's a good cop or not, you have to do it or you won't be a good cop very long. Maybe that's the problem.

Your idea is noble but this isn't a noble world. You try and be your definition of a good cop, you aren't going to be a cop very long. Yes, you may do some good while you're there but you'll lose the support of your bosses and the citizens you're supposed to serve pretty quick.

I think "politician" has to be added as one of the duties of being a good cop.

Last edited by Jefferson (2007-11-25 03:33:01)

Again, I agree with you. It does suck.

But even in the best world we could make, you would still have humans (I assume) in it and humans have certain traits, that no matter how hard we try, no matter what kind of fear or respect we instill in them, they will still abuse their power, they will still get lazy, they will still get greedy, they will still get tired, they will still make mistakes. This makes the world you mentioned nearly impossible to acheive.

People will also continue to misspell words. hehe