The Pub Discussion Board

I'll leave it up to the reader to decide if Joe knew at that particular point.  I will say that, when you pair this conversation with the one he had with Zyla, you can be fairly safe that he added 2 and 2 and came up with at least 3.99... 


Eric Storm

Hey neolyn - dude, relax. Fine, you didn't ike the chapter but did you need to go into such detail. Say you didn't like it and get on with your day. Or simply thank Eric for his efforts and get on with your day.

To answer one riddle for you, the joke about European and African Falconswift comes from MONTY PYTHON AND THE HOLY GRAIL. It came out in 1975 If you haven't yet seen it, watch it. Then, in great detail, write to the surviving members of Monty Python and tell them specifically what you didn't like about the movie. They love when people do that.

Last edited by bigfoot (2020-06-02 13:28:59)

neolyn wrote:

Okay , so.... report:

Yes, let's report.  Report on when you read the Critiquing Guide, please, because you didn't follow any portion of it in this review.

A bit disapointed with the chapter, it was mostly a succession of  military assholes and David somehow dealing with them.
It was intertaining but I would haved like to read something different at some point.

Gee, David... who is in... THE MILITARY... had to deal with... THE MILITARY... 

Maybe I just thought that was... oh, I don't know... RELEVANT?

The POINT was to show that being in the office is in no way more relaxing or easier for David to deal with than being in the field.  So sorry that I didn't make that clear enough for you.

Which I did with the very last part of the chapter but that was not really relevant, I guess?

I mean to sum it up it was:
David came, said hello, asked for the shield, got told to go see the ice dragon and left...

I think you could have put it almost anywhere in the chapter and it would not have change a thing.

Which means... what?  Subplots are very often moveable without changing the larger story.  This comment is meaningless.  So long as this scene happened between the last elemental-shield scene, and the next elemental-shield scene, you're right, it could be put anywhere.  I chose to put it... there.  Do you have some objection to it being there?

Maybe, it would have been better if the moment was longer and give a bit more info, not about the shield, but about the were-fox, or their culture, or something. you shut it down really quickly by a simple " Not our bussiness". That was a bit cheap.

So, you wanted me to take a chapter which was already nearly 18,000 words... and add FLUFF?  What you're asking for would have been completely and totally irrelevant to anything and everything that would come after it.  Oh, I understand the idea of world building, but don't you think FIVE CHAPTERS FROM THE END OF THE SERIES might be a little late to be worrying about it?

You call it "cheap"... I don't even know how to interpret that.  David went there for one reason.  He didn't go to explore, he didn't go to learn about were-fox culture or history.  He went there to find out about the elemental shield.  They couldn't tell him anything about it, so he left.

While I do not embrace the idea that "every word in a book must further the plot", even I have my limits on putting in pointless gibberish.

By the way there is an error when David leave REv, here it is:

"For another hour or so," Rev said with a grin in his voice.  "

Rev is a female so shouldn't it be :" Rev said with a grin in HER voice ?

I don't know about any other mistakes but that one caught my eye.

Good catch... oh, wait, no it wasn't, because REV IS A BOY.  This just proves you didn't really READ.  The FIRST were-fox was a girl, but she didn't speak English.  Rev is very clearly listed as a boy in the story.  Here is the relevant quote:

"I'm sorry, I didn't understand you.   Can you speak my language?"

Another were came up, this one apparently a boy.   "I can.   My name is Rev.   What brings you all the way out here?"

Shiwa, the first were, was a girl. 

Now what else to talk about but Joe.
What an ass. I mean okay he's dead, but doesn't he have friends and family there too ? So he doesn't have to be alone and bitter ?

Has Joe shown any ability to handle life's setbacks with equanimity?  His bitterness isn't because he's alone.  His solitude is because he's bitter.

If he doesn't like death so much, why didn't he go off himself for good in the belly of the beast that eat ghost ?

That you think that's the only way for a ghost to discorporate makes me wonder how well you've read any portion of the series.  But as an answer to the point of the question, He's smart enough to know that he may come out of this mood in the future, and so he's giving it time.  Honestly, I wouldn't expect Joe to last long as a ghost.  Some people don't.

For saying that he miss and love Zyla so much, he couldn't make the effort to properly say goodbye to her?

You are asking Joe to try to think about someone else's feelings when his own are like acid eating at his soul at the moment.

Throughout the series, I have portrayed most ghosts as being unpleasant and unhappy.  Why do you suddenly expect Joe to be something other than unpleasant and unhappy?

One of my reviewers had a spot-on insight about Joe's behavior.  Perhaps this will get through to you:  Imagine a star athlete, an Olympic gold-medalist, who is one day in some kind of accident... car crash, plane crash, whatever, something random.  He is so badly damaged that he is now a quadriplegic.

You think that person's going to deal well with someone else's pain and heartache?  That's where Joe is, mentally.

It's not like they are separate forever though. Once she dies, death isn't between the two of them anymore...

Okay, please tell me you're not actually as dumb as this makes you sound.  Assuming she lives a normal wizard life, you're talking about another 115 (or so) YEARS before Zyla would die.  She will be such a different person at that point that the very thought of the two of them getting back together is just ludicrous.  Hell, she will probably not have a decent recollection of his personality at that point.

To get back to the sucession of military assholes... was it here to introduce the David X Toni scene ? It's the only reason I see for the succession being there.

That was part of its reason for being there, yes.  Or it could be said that Toni's scene was there to show how David normally deals with his stress.

And why not go to Vivian or Glendia for stress relief ?

What have you got against Toni?  David didn't "go to" anybody.  Toni came to him.

By the way, did you know that every time David get a blow job you're always using the same words when he comes?A touch of novelty would not hurt one bit

By the way, did you know that this was an exceedingly condescending and asshole comment to make?  A bit of manners would not hurt one bit.

Was this chapter a break from the action/ main plot for the reader to get some room the breath a bit ?

This chapter contained the events that this chapter needed to contain in order for the plot - ALL OF the plot - to advance forward.  It's not my fault if you don't comprehend all the facets of the plot, and the fact that they need to move together.  Nor is it my fault if I didn't happen to cover the kinds of things YOU wanted to read about in this chapter.

The writting was good, as always, just the events being related not so much.

So sad for you.

Not your greatest chapter, but I guess after the previous one which I think is one of the best of the entire Woodward saga, I'm a bit biased. That and I didn't get the joke about European and African Falconswift, and I HATE when I don't get it! >

I would explain it, but I suddenly don't feel like it.

Do keep writitng, because this work is really nice.

Oh, thank you SO much for your "encouragement".  This is a pre-thank you, since there was no encouragement in this post.  I'm assuming you'll actually offer some genuine encouragement in the future.  Not sure WHY I'm assuming that, given your history of posts, but...

PS: Still waiting for some kind of threesome with the Hasterscant ladies (or any kind of threesome, it's been a while)

And you chose this post as a way to try to convince me?  Good thinking.

Let me make this clear to you, in an attempt to help you enjoy the rest of the book, since you obviously haven't figured it out on your own:

This book is not about the war.  This book is about David's dark side.  This chapter was very, very targeted on David's darkness, and how it is growing.  I'm SO sorry that wasn't the sort of thing you wanted to read about.  Perhaps, if that plot line doesn't interest you, you should consider skipping the rest of the book.

I would also like to point out to you:  David is a staff officer.  His actual job, charge officer for the company, is a desk job.  This chapter reflected that.  His forays into the field are actually additional assignments that he has to deal with, because of who he is.

So... not your best critique.  But, you know, keep reading, because the feedback is really... er... um... actually...  you know what?  You can stop reading, if you like.

PPS: Still waiting for a David X Helen or a David X Endora (would really like to see if the ever so strict on the sheets Endora is as strict IN the sheets if you know what I mean : D).

Don't hold your breath.

PPPS: Can Banshees have sex ?

Why would they possess that ability?

PPPPS: Will we ever see another protagonist like Rose? You know with nipple rings and a really, really kinky side ?

You already bitched because I introduced one new sex partner, and now you want me to bring in another one?  Make up your fucking mind.  Oh, and Rose was not a protagonist.  She was a support character.

From your second post:

I'm a bit disapointed with the chapter, that doesn't mean I didn't like it.

"A bit disappointed"?  Geez, it's a good thing you didn't really not like it...  For the record, your first post sounds very much like you hated the chapter.  Whether that was your intent or not is irrelevant, it was what came across.

I did have to go into such detail, what kind of critic would that be if I didn't ?

A lousy one, but you already are a lousy one, so what's the difference?

But as far as I know ( and let's be honest that's not much) authors want an honest opinion about their work.
Sure they like comments praisint it (who doesn't ?) but feeling good about it aside, those kind of comment is not really helpful.

Neither were yours.  And you want to know why?

You don't offer solutions.

With the exception of the already-covered idea of going into were-fox culture, you never offered ways to fix the problems you complained about.  That's not constructive.  That's whining.  "You need to fix X!" the reader says.  "Well, how do I need to fix X?" the writer asks.  "Just... fix it!" the reader demands.  "If I knew how to make it better," the author replies, "don't you think I would have done it already?"

There's a reason that my reviewers are my reviewers:  When they say they don't like something, they offer a way to make it better.  I may or may not accept that idea.  I might not agree there's anything wrong with the scene in question, but they've given me an option.  You didn't.  All you did was complain.

I create games, I want and need to see what people thinks about my work, not just " hey it's good/bad" I want to know the why behind it, that's what is really important so I can do better next time.

And do you find it helpful when someone says, "Hey, I don't like how this character interacts with the player," and leaves it at that?  If you already knew how to fix what they're complaining about, why haven't you done it already?  Stating a problem without giving a solution is whining, not reviewing.

I think every single person who's really into making something share that feeling.
Yes sometimes it sucks, that people think negativly of what we put time and effort to make, but that's life.

Actually, that's not life.  That you think it is, is what's wrong with your post.  Had you taken the time and effort to write your post in a non-offensive way, your message would have had a tenfold better chance at being heard in a way you wanted it to be.  What I heard from you, instead, was a bunch of infantile crying and whining because your mother gave you Apple Jacks instead of Fruit Loops.

Besides Eric is a tough guy, 't is but a scratch for him.

Wow.  Just... wow.  You don't even know me in the slightest, and you can make a statement like this.  Even given the number of times I've talked about suffering depression, anxiety, difficulties with stress... you can sit there and make a comment like this.

You, sir, are an asshole.

Eric Storm

I get the feeling joe will be poking around at woodward before to long passing anything he finds to lord wooward most likly

(posted from Chapter 8: January)

Definitely an interesting chapter. Didn’t particularly like Joe’s attitude but as you said that’s his character. Doubt we’ll ever find out if he adjusts to being dead. Had a crazy thought; if the previous Alpha really did want Vrudena and Callamandia to be friends could David find him in haven and perhaps get some kind of useful information for the war effort? Or would the previous Alpha stay true to his country?

Eric Storm I have to admit I did not fully read this entire post but I read enough to be thankful that you put this so called critic in his place he obviously has not read your story properly before making his criticisms about your work I hope your next chapter will be out soon keep up the good work   

Eric Storm wrote:

neolyn wrote:

Okay , so.... report:

Yes, let's report.  Report on when you read the Critiquing Guide, please, because you didn't follow any portion of it in this review.

A bit disapointed with the chapter, it was mostly a succession of  military assholes and David somehow dealing with them.
It was intertaining but I would haved like to read something different at some point.

Gee, David... who is in... THE MILITARY... had to deal with... THE MILITARY... 

Maybe I just thought that was... oh, I don't know... RELEVANT?

The POINT was to show that being in the office is in no way more relaxing or easier for David to deal with than being in the field.  So sorry that I didn't make that clear enough for you.

Which I did with the very last part of the chapter but that was not really relevant, I guess?

I mean to sum it up it was:
David came, said hello, asked for the shield, got told to go see the ice dragon and left...

I think you could have put it almost anywhere in the chapter and it would not have change a thing.

Which means... what?  Subplots are very often moveable without changing the larger story.  This comment is meaningless.  So long as this scene happened between the last elemental-shield scene, and the next elemental-shield scene, you're right, it could be put anywhere.  I chose to put it... there.  Do you have some objection to it being there?

Maybe, it would have been better if the moment was longer and give a bit more info, not about the shield, but about the were-fox, or their culture, or something. you shut it down really quickly by a simple " Not our bussiness". That was a bit cheap.

So, you wanted me to take a chapter which was already nearly 18,000 words... and add FLUFF?  What you're asking for would have been completely and totally irrelevant to anything and everything that would come after it.  Oh, I understand the idea of world building, but don't you think FIVE CHAPTERS FROM THE END OF THE SERIES might be a little late to be worrying about it?

You call it "cheap"... I don't even know how to interpret that.  David went there for one reason.  He didn't go to explore, he didn't go to learn about were-fox culture or history.  He went there to find out about the elemental shield.  They couldn't tell him anything about it, so he left.

While I do not embrace the idea that "every word in a book must further the plot", even I have my limits on putting in pointless gibberish.

By the way there is an error when David leave REv, here it is:

"For another hour or so," Rev said with a grin in his voice.  "

Rev is a female so shouldn't it be :" Rev said with a grin in HER voice ?

I don't know about any other mistakes but that one caught my eye.

Good catch... oh, wait, no it wasn't, because REV IS A BOY.  This just proves you didn't really READ.  The FIRST were-fox was a girl, but she didn't speak English.  Rev is very clearly listed as a boy in the story.  Here is the relevant quote:

"I'm sorry, I didn't understand you.   Can you speak my language?"

Another were came up, this one apparently a boy.   "I can.   My name is Rev.   What brings you all the way out here?"

Shiwa, the first were, was a girl. 

Now what else to talk about but Joe.
What an ass. I mean okay he's dead, but doesn't he have friends and family there too ? So he doesn't have to be alone and bitter ?

Has Joe shown any ability to handle life's setbacks with equanimity?  His bitterness isn't because he's alone.  His solitude is because he's bitter.

If he doesn't like death so much, why didn't he go off himself for good in the belly of the beast that eat ghost ?

That you think that's the only way for a ghost to discorporate makes me wonder how well you've read any portion of the series.  But as an answer to the point of the question, He's smart enough to know that he may come out of this mood in the future, and so he's giving it time.  Honestly, I wouldn't expect Joe to last long as a ghost.  Some people don't.

For saying that he miss and love Zyla so much, he couldn't make the effort to properly say goodbye to her?

You are asking Joe to try to think about someone else's feelings when his own are like acid eating at his soul at the moment.

Throughout the series, I have portrayed most ghosts as being unpleasant and unhappy.  Why do you suddenly expect Joe to be something other than unpleasant and unhappy?

One of my reviewers had a spot-on insight about Joe's behavior.  Perhaps this will get through to you:  Imagine a star athlete, an Olympic gold-medalist, who is one day in some kind of accident... car crash, plane crash, whatever, something random.  He is so badly damaged that he is now a quadriplegic.

You think that person's going to deal well with someone else's pain and heartache?  That's where Joe is, mentally.

It's not like they are separate forever though. Once she dies, death isn't between the two of them anymore...

Okay, please tell me you're not actually as dumb as this makes you sound.  Assuming she lives a normal wizard life, you're talking about another 115 (or so) YEARS before Zyla would die.  She will be such a different person at that point that the very thought of the two of them getting back together is just ludicrous.  Hell, she will probably not have a decent recollection of his personality at that point.

To get back to the sucession of military assholes... was it here to introduce the David X Toni scene ? It's the only reason I see for the succession being there.

That was part of its reason for being there, yes.  Or it could be said that Toni's scene was there to show how David normally deals with his stress.

And why not go to Vivian or Glendia for stress relief ?

What have you got against Toni?  David didn't "go to" anybody.  Toni came to him.

By the way, did you know that every time David get a blow job you're always using the same words when he comes?A touch of novelty would not hurt one bit

By the way, did you know that this was an exceedingly condescending and asshole comment to make?  A bit of manners would not hurt one bit.

Was this chapter a break from the action/ main plot for the reader to get some room the breath a bit ?

This chapter contained the events that this chapter needed to contain in order for the plot - ALL OF the plot - to advance forward.  It's not my fault if you don't comprehend all the facets of the plot, and the fact that they need to move together.  Nor is it my fault if I didn't happen to cover the kinds of things YOU wanted to read about in this chapter.

The writting was good, as always, just the events being related not so much.

So sad for you.

Not your greatest chapter, but I guess after the previous one which I think is one of the best of the entire Woodward saga, I'm a bit biased. That and I didn't get the joke about European and African Falconswift, and I HATE when I don't get it! >

I would explain it, but I suddenly don't feel like it.

Do keep writitng, because this work is really nice.

Oh, thank you SO much for your "encouragement".  This is a pre-thank you, since there was no encouragement in this post.  I'm assuming you'll actually offer some genuine encouragement in the future.  Not sure WHY I'm assuming that, given your history of posts, but...

PS: Still waiting for some kind of threesome with the Hasterscant ladies (or any kind of threesome, it's been a while)

And you chose this post as a way to try to convince me?  Good thinking.

Let me make this clear to you, in an attempt to help you enjoy the rest of the book, since you obviously haven't figured it out on your own:

This book is not about the war.  This book is about David's dark side.  This chapter was very, very targeted on David's darkness, and how it is growing.  I'm SO sorry that wasn't the sort of thing you wanted to read about.  Perhaps, if that plot line doesn't interest you, you should consider skipping the rest of the book.

I would also like to point out to you:  David is a staff officer.  His actual job, charge officer for the company, is a desk job.  This chapter reflected that.  His forays into the field are actually additional assignments that he has to deal with, because of who he is.

So... not your best critique.  But, you know, keep reading, because the feedback is really... er... um... actually...  you know what?  You can stop reading, if you like.

PPS: Still waiting for a David X Helen or a David X Endora (would really like to see if the ever so strict on the sheets Endora is as strict IN the sheets if you know what I mean : D).

Don't hold your breath.

PPPS: Can Banshees have sex ?

Why would they possess that ability?

PPPPS: Will we ever see another protagonist like Rose? You know with nipple rings and a really, really kinky side ?

You already bitched because I introduced one new sex partner, and now you want me to bring in another one?  Make up your fucking mind.  Oh, and Rose was not a protagonist.  She was a support character.

From your second post:

I'm a bit disapointed with the chapter, that doesn't mean I didn't like it.

"A bit disappointed"?  Geez, it's a good thing you didn't really not like it...  For the record, your first post sounds very much like you hated the chapter.  Whether that was your intent or not is irrelevant, it was what came across.

I did have to go into such detail, what kind of critic would that be if I didn't ?

A lousy one, but you already are a lousy one, so what's the difference?

But as far as I know ( and let's be honest that's not much) authors want an honest opinion about their work.
Sure they like comments praisint it (who doesn't ?) but feeling good about it aside, those kind of comment is not really helpful.

Neither were yours.  And you want to know why?

You don't offer solutions.

With the exception of the already-covered idea of going into were-fox culture, you never offered ways to fix the problems you complained about.  That's not constructive.  That's whining.  "You need to fix X!" the reader says.  "Well, how do I need to fix X?" the writer asks.  "Just... fix it!" the reader demands.  "If I knew how to make it better," the author replies, "don't you think I would have done it already?"

There's a reason that my reviewers are my reviewers:  When they say they don't like something, they offer a way to make it better.  I may or may not accept that idea.  I might not agree there's anything wrong with the scene in question, but they've given me an option.  You didn't.  All you did was complain.

I create games, I want and need to see what people thinks about my work, not just " hey it's good/bad" I want to know the why behind it, that's what is really important so I can do better next time.

And do you find it helpful when someone says, "Hey, I don't like how this character interacts with the player," and leaves it at that?  If you already knew how to fix what they're complaining about, why haven't you done it already?  Stating a problem without giving a solution is whining, not reviewing.

I think every single person who's really into making something share that feeling.
Yes sometimes it sucks, that people think negativly of what we put time and effort to make, but that's life.

Actually, that's not life.  That you think it is, is what's wrong with your post.  Had you taken the time and effort to write your post in a non-offensive way, your message would have had a tenfold better chance at being heard in a way you wanted it to be.  What I heard from you, instead, was a bunch of infantile crying and whining because your mother gave you Apple Jacks instead of Fruit Loops.

Besides Eric is a tough guy, 't is but a scratch for him.

Wow.  Just... wow.  You don't even know me in the slightest, and you can make a statement like this.  Even given the number of times I've talked about suffering depression, anxiety, difficulties with stress... you can sit there and make a comment like this.

You, sir, are an asshole.

Eric Storm

Phoenix Angel:

The next chapter will be out July 1st.

Eric Storm

Glad you're enjoying the story.

Eric Storm

Elessar wrote:

Now don’t quote me on this(Eric will), but I vaguely recall Olissa saying that she had not yet met the woman, and at the time of saying that, she had already, briefly met Zyla.(potion apprenticeship test)

Wouldn't want to disappoint you, so I quoted you.

That is NOT what Olissa said.  Here is her actual quote:

The Woodward Academy, Year 6, Chapter 8: January wrote:

"Someone will.  My vision said so."

"Who is it, then?"

Olissa sat down on the sofa beside him.  "I didn't recognize her.  I wouldn't tell you, even if I had.  That isn't information you should have."

Pay attention to the wording.  There are two key words in that quote:  "didn't", and "recognize".

"Didn't" - means that the statement applies to the time she had the vision, not the current moment.  In other words, the statement applies to the start of book 4, not the middle of book 6.

"recognize" - means that Olissa could not put the face with an identity.  It does not mean she has never encountered the woman before.  It means one of the following four things:

1. At the time of the vision, Olissa had actually never met this woman before (eg, Vivian, Chloe, Christa), -OR-
2. At the time of the vision, Olissa had never interacted with this woman in a way that would be memorable (eg, Zyla, Denise*), -OR-
3. The woman has changed so much between the time that Olissa had the vision, and the time that the vision represents, that the woman was unrecognizable (eg, Grace), -OR-
4. Olissa was outright lying to keep the issue muddled and prevent David from asking further.  (She wasn't yet David's slave at this point: she was under no obligation to be completely truthful yet... and she was punished for all pre-slavery acts of deception during her trial.)

* Denise MAY not qualify.  Up until the end of year 3, it cannot be confirmed that she ever met Denise, but at the end of year 3, they were sitting together at a dinner table.  However, they were in a large group, and if Olissa and Denise didn't converse, it is conceivable that she didn't remember the face.

My point is not to say that it is Zyla.  Nor is it to say that it is not Zyla.  My point is to point out that your point... has no point.  Er, or something.    Your point doesn't hold water.  But just because your specific point isn't right doesn't mean there aren't other good reasons it's not Zyla... or that there aren't good reasons it's somebody else.  Many clues have been left pointing to someone else, in fact.  Perhaps a re-read of the entire series might help...

Eric Storm

Pfft.  I don't even look at my download figures.  They're not accurate anymore, anyway.  Not until I do a major overhaul of the system.

Eric Storm

In this case, "download" means "view in any fashion".  Both downloads and on-site views are counted.  But due to an infrastructure error, the counts are no longer accurate.  If/when I ever manage to build the new version of the site, they'll be fixed.

Eric Storm.

While I know Eric has written some interesting incest stories, I don’t foresee this being one where he willingly has sex with his god daughter. While it’s not specifically incest, he views her are innocent as possible. Also, I think for the story to close in the next couple chapters WITHOUT another book. It would have to be someone born already.

In my opinion.

Sniper wrote:

Eric Storm wrote:

Many clues have been left pointing to someone else, in fact.  Perhaps a re-read of the entire series might help...

Eric Storm

Well, rereading about 7 1/2 books, what would mean somewhere around 1.5 to 2 million words...that would ensure no more pestering Eric for the remaining chapters of WAY8. Not gonna happen. It could by Christa or Jenny or Zyla or Grace or anybody else already introduced or even someone who has not been born yet. Such suspense...