The Pub Discussion Board

David has initiated with:
     Amanda
     Flo
     Jenny
     Rose

These girls initiated with David:
     Anne
     Bonnie
     Cat
     Devyn
     Ellie
     Giendia
     Olissa
     Penny
     Sam

Girls with whom the relationship started by more or less mutual consent:
     Kielin
     Louisa
     Lydia
     Shell
     Vivian

Another whole set of women he hasn't slept with:  Any of the royalty or priestesses of Mirelia.

Eric Storm

Elessar wrote:

I know, shut up, there wasn't a balanced constructive criticism.

Especially since what you're advocating is the exact problem you claimed existed in the last chapter, which was that there were too many scenes that didn't seem to have anything to do with the plot.

I will point out, once again, that Flo hasn't been in the story since book 6. She is also aware that David is in the military, or we certainly assume she would be, so she's not going to show up at the house randomly to see David, because she wouldn't expect him to be there.

As to the idea of other characters talking about what David is doing, or how he's doing, how would they know? The only characters who are going to have any idea how David's doing, or what David's doing, are the ones he's currently interacting with. That would be limited to Vivian, Giendia, Olissa, Gwen, Jess, and Zyla. These are the characters that are currently appearing in the book. You mentioned Giendia's father, and I can see where he might have received a letter from Giendia, but who would he be talking to? He is, as we know, working at a supply depot. There's no other already known character for him to be discussing it with.

About the only scene of this type that I would consider to make any sense would be a discussion between Dean Lengel and one or more of the other professors. However, I am intentionally not showing scenes at the school because they would potentially tell the reader whether or not Levi Dailey was lying.

So, while I am not an adherent of the "only if it advances the plot" idea of writing (I often include shit that has nothing to do with the plot), the scene does have to at least make some kind of sense within the context of the story. The scenes that you are suggesting…  don't.

Eric Storm

And... how, exactly, would that advance the story?  Or even provide any real attention to the so-called discarded side characters neolyn was complaining about?  Giendia is one of the primary characters in book 8, so she hardly needs more screen-time...

Eric Storm

I agree with Sniper.

These stories are about David and his development after becoming "not alive". All other characters are supporting cast.

This means that, with very few exceptions, the scenes in the stories will feature David in some way. Those few which might not feature David (I cannot think of any that don't include David off the top of my head) will be setting something up for the rest of the story.

This chapter contains the last steps David will take before either turning dark and losing the desire to fight the continuing darkness, or finding the ability within himself to let go of the darkness from without to allow him to deal with -- or at least contain/restrain -- the darkness from within.

Let Eric develop the story the way that he sees the story needing to be developed. After all, he is the only one who knows just where he is wanting to go with it.

I'm pretty sure "dozens" of other characters was a major exaggeration.  I'm not sure you could name 2 dozen heavily recurring characters for the story.

darthel0101 wrote:

(I cannot think of any that don't include David off the top of my head)

Two that immediately come to mind:  Book 1, when Garibaldi discovered David's activities in the paper, and in Book 2, when Prof. Stott asked the faculty to allow David to stay in faculty housing.  But they are rare, and that is intentional.  I try to tell the story from the main character's point of view, so if the MC doesn't know it, the reader shouldn't, either.  The times I break that rule are because the reader really needs to be clued in to something before the MC encounters it, so that they can make sense of character interactions.

Seriously, book 8 was planned out before I ever started writing chapter 1.  You talk about expanding a "base" to write from, but really, all you're talking about is trying to make readers like you happy by randomly dropping characters into the book.  This book is already likely to be over 200,000 words as planned.  It hardly needs more filler...

Eric Storm

Well, by my own definition, Amanda would not count as "heavily recurring".  She only seriously appeared in 4 or 5 chapters out of an 8-book series.  Your definition may grant you more characters than mine. 

Eric Storm

PS:  And I should have thought of the king/ambassador scene, as I just re-read that scene earlier today!!!

Um... do you perhaps mean SIMON?  Because Steven was in... like... two scenes or something.

Simon... I would have considered him one until he was written out of the series.  But since he hasn't appeared in the last 40 chapters... probably not so much.

Eric Storm

Ok I sat down and made a list. I came up with Sam, Lise, Emily, Charlie, Cat, Healer Hall, Ellen, Miss J, Olissa, Gwen, Jim, Simon, Devyn, Ellie, Anne, Lydia, Flo, Vivian, Joe, Zyla, Giendia, the king and Penny. Borderline characters I have are Endora, Prof Rutherford, Prof Zoroaster, Prof Blackstone, Seth, Chloe, Denise, Jacob and Lord Woodward. I also have three characters that I can see might becoming important. Those are Bob, Jenny and Gabriel. I’m also interested about Agent Keef but that’s a personal interest.

Last edited by thehilz (2019-09-07 09:32:55)

thehilz: 

Did you leave out Christa for a reason?  I'm not saying there's anything uber-special about her, it's just that her absence on your list kind of jumped out at me.

So... 35 people.  With Christa, 36.  I would personally disagree with calling some of those "heavily recurring characters", especially since some of them haven't appeared for several books.  I would personally rule out the following as heavily recurring characters from your list: Flo, Jim, Devyn, Ellie, Simon, Lydia, Seth, Jacob, and all three of your potential ones (Bob, Jenny and Gabriel).  So, removing those 11, we're down to 25 (if we include Christa).  Okay, so technically "dozens", but not the generally accepted connotation of dozens...  Still, we did managed two dozen, which surprises me somewhat.

Your comment about Simon is reasonable.  It's even possible that he is in the army somewhere, either having enlisted voluntarily, or having been conscripted.

Just for the record, for me a "heavily recurring character" has to appear for more than their own story arc.  For instance, Lydia was around only for as long as she was David's girlfriend (discounting the scene in Travaysal where they met, which was mere setup)  Same with Amanda, Shell, even Wilson... they were only present in the stories to fulfill a single plotline.  Whereas the major recurring characters, such as Olissa, Vivian, Dean Lengel, Zyla, Flo, etc... have been through several plotlines with the MC.  But to be "heavily recurring", they also have to still be in the story, which is why people like Flo and Simon get ruled out.

BTW, Keeshaba would yell at all of us at this point, so let me say this:  Jailla is not a recurring character.  He is considered a main character, and has had at least one scene in every single chapter in the series after he was introduced.  (Yes, this is by wifely proclamation.)

Jefferson: 

...go back and re-read the entire series.  Seriously.  Everyone becomes a ghost when they die, with the exception of those who become undead.  The Dugerran-universe life cycle is birth -> life -> death -> ghost life -> discorporation.  ALL normal people follow this cycle.

Lord Woodward is in Woodward Castle because he built the damned thing, and he considers it his home.

A story about Lord Woodward would not include the creation of the school, as the school was not created for centuries after his death.  It could be about the creation of Mt. Woodward, but not about the school.

And I do, in fact, have a story idea that takes place during Lord Woodward's era.  It is not actually about Lord Woodward himself, though he would appear in the story.  It is about a young, not-very-good wizard, and his struggles during the second were war.

I'm not sure how interesting a story about Lord Woodward himself would actually be.  As we know from the history already given, he wasn't actually a fighter.  He was a planner and builder.  He spent his days inside Castle Woodward during the war.  Oh, there were some tense times when the castle was attacked, but for the most part, his life would have been administrative.

*yawn*.

Eric Storm

Two wrongs don't make a right!!! 

(They make a rewrong.  You don't want to know about rewrongs, they're evil little bastards...)

Eric Storm

Make a left, yes, but you've retreated by at least one block!!!

Eric Storm

After about a half-hour of internet searching, I can find no reference to an abdominal injury preventing the diaphragm from operating.

The diaphragm is a muscle attached mostly to the rib cage.  As such, the abdomen has almost nothing to do with its operation.  The abdomen can HELP with "forced exhalation", but this isn't something the werewolf would have been doing at the time.

So, unless you have some medical knowledge that I'm not able to locate online (I'm not a medical professional, so...), I have to go with basic common sense:  If you don't damage the muscle, or the stuff the muscle's attached to, then the muscle will continue to work.  David very specifically made his cut into the werewolf to NOT damage the thoracic area.

Having said that, even if the diaphragm ceased operation entirely, it is not 100% responsible for respiration.  The victim would still be able to breathe, if poorly.  The muscles of the ribs would be able to contract and cause expansion of the chest cavity.  It's just harder to get a really good breath this way.  People survive diaphragmatic paralysis (something I didn't even know existed until about twenty minutes ago), which can go on for days, so I don't think the were was in danger of suffocating.

Eric Storm

Yikes.  Yeah, the diaphragm is the muscle that does the breathing.  Tsk on you.  You could have at least looked it up before you made me do all that searching.

*note to self: kill someone nicknamed Barbarian in a story in a humiliating fashion...*


Eric Storm