The Pub Discussion Board

Eric Storm wrote:

neolyn: Using a truth potion on someone without their knowledge is a serious crime... like Barnard Hill stay for several years kind of crime.  I don't think David's willing to risk that just to have his question answered, so yes, if he chose to go that route, he would have to ask her to take it... with all the attendant problems that would cause that have already been mentioned.

Obviously Levi Dailey and Lord Dailey the Inept are related.

As to Vivian and David... you'll just have to keep reading to find out whether that happens or not.

Eric Storm

So, how far does Dailey's tradition go back too and how many demi-ghost did they create? Iirc demi-ghost are very rare magical beings yet they can make them, in that case should they not be that rare? I mean should there not be more demi-ghost than the people think, and they are just lock-up in some space like Jacob ?

If Vivian is not David's future girlfriend(chances are high she's not) I'd be disappointed, the build -up of there relationship is so slow but so good!

I'd be even more disappointed if David girlfriend's is not as lovable as Vivian ...

neolyn:

Consider:  Jacob was imprisoned by Dailey's great-grandfather 150 years before the start of the series, so (very) approximately 160 years before the attempt to imprison David.  We can reasonably assume that some unknown demighost was imprisoned by both Dailey's grandfather, and his father.  So, three intervals.  That leaves us with (very) approximately 50 years between imprisonments.  Even if they have been doing this for a thousand years, that's a whopping 20 people turned into demighosts.  Not exactly an overpopulation problem.

Also keep in mind that, unlike the attempt on David, Jacob was not imprisoned right after his creation  Jacob is over 800 years old, but has only been imprisoned for 157 or so.

Eric Storm

neolyn wrote:

20 for a thousand years for a single family. In a way  it's seems like  a really small number but at the same time, 20 demi-ghost, I feel like it's a lot since we only got to see about ... 3(?) in the all the seven book.

"only" got to see 3... out of 22... or nearly 14%.

You've seen around 2000 people (the school population)... out of two to three million in Callamandia, or around 0.1%.

What this means is that you have seen 140 times more demighosts than you should have, given the amount of the general populace you have seen.

Put another way:  22 demighosts in 2,000,000 people is equal to one out of every 90,909 people being a demighost.  You've seen 3 demighosts in the story.  Have you seen 300,000 people?

Isn't math fun?

Are there other ancient family out there with the same tradition ?

Probably not.

How come the Daileys made it a tradition ?

Because.

What would happen if the last male descendant become a demi-ghost ? Does that mean that Jacob and every other demi-ghost imprisoned by the family will never be free ?

If the last male descendant became a demighost, he would no longer be alive.  Thus, the curse would end.  If mere existence was all that was required, then any Dailey ghost would also perpetuate the curse.

Approximately how many demi-ghost exist ?

That's for me to know, and for you to probably never find out.

Not chapter related but, Will we get to see Gienda again ?

Giendia will figure prominently in book 8.

Eric Storm

Malkav666 wrote:

"How come the Daileys made it a tradition ?

Because"

Long time lurker.  I just wanted to point out that Eric recently mentioned litches exist. Whom I believe manipulate and enslave the undead. A necromancer was also talked about in this chapter. Also did he at any point say he was a normal human or just that his family is old and popowerful.

So what family would have a challenge to enslave and imprision the most powerful of the undead and also make sure they are still around. (they don't do it to protect innocents)

. In my opinion a family who's power is based on control of the dead or undead. IE a litch or necromancer family.

I thought liches were powerful necromancers that removed their own soul into a external container to grant themselves more power and a flawed form of immortality. We might have to wait though and see what Eric sets them up as.

Didn't see that coming. Loving the series. Keep up the good work.

(posted from Chapter 10: March)

They're not entirely non-traditional... just my spin on the traditions.



Eric Storm

Awe,  Ok maybe my theory and nerd knowledge wernt great but I still say that Lich's would have worked nicely too,  then daily wouldn't have died in the lava.
PS Ihave loved your stories for a long time,  I wanna say I first read your stuff under netwolf on that mind control site.

Well it's almost a fluke David wasn't trapped for all eternity in a fate worse than death.
                In the grand scheme of things David would care,  he built up lots of bonds of love and trust with people and now its almost a certainty that one of those people  betrayed him.

If David thinks it through he will realise he can't trust as many people as before.   With the war approaching, once it comes out that he's a teleporter the Were's will know he's one of the strongest mages ever. Any plans they have will include netrualizing him very early on.

His way of staying happy and sane through immortality just got a minor setback

neolyn: Do wolf packs fall apart because the head wolf is dumb as a post?  Do lion prides?  Succession by contest rarely ends up being just "the strongest".  It's usually about a combination of traits.  If fighter A is only half as strong as fighter B, but four times as smart, he's probably still gonna win.

That said, if fighter A is only a little bit smarter than fighter B, fighter B's probably gonna win... but then, you haven't really lost much there.

Point is there's a set of traits needed to win such a contest, and strength is only one of them.  Alphas over the years have ranged from aggressive and strong, but not that bright, to highly intelligent, if slightly weaker.  Just like leaders of other nations: people vary.

As to killing the Alpha, we already know that there are ghost prevention devices around him.  One could also assume there is a conjuring prevention field around him.  (Conjuring in poison gas will kill him as easily as David could...)

No, this would be a far too obvious path, which any leader would know to protect themselves from.


Barbarian:  Why would it matter whether the people you have come to think of as your family have been lying to you for the entire time you've known them?  You seriously have to ask this question?  "Paid" isn't the issue.  The question is whether or not their reactions to him were honest ones.  Did Sam take him as a lover because that was her "assignment"?  Did Cat turn to him for help because she was told to?  Did Prof. Rutherford encourage him to stay in her class because the dean wanted it that way?  This is about trust.  David has been repeatedly stabbed in the back by people he called friend.  If this turns out to be true, he wouldn't be able to trust anyone.  He'd never again trust his reaction to people, because he'd have been proven to be wrong on almost every account.  Yeah, it matters whether Dailey was telling the truth or not.

And no, in matters of friendship and trust, you don't sit there and weigh whether what they taught you outweighs the fact that they lied to you.  THEY LIED TO YOU.  That pretty much outweighs EVERYTHING ELSE.  You can say, "But look what they taught him!"  But they didn't do it because they believed in him, or because they liked him, or because they wanted him to succeed.  They did it because they were ordered to.


HendrixMorton: Glad you're enjoying the stories.  And don't hesitate to respond to authors.  For most of us, that's the sum total of our pay for doing this: feedback.


Malkav666: To become a lich, however, Dailey has to die.  I can't imagine too many families want to be ruled over by a dead guy.


Eric Storm

No, David cannot "break" conjuring prevention fields... at least not one of any real strength.

Conjuring fields are of a specific size.  Dailey did not create a conjuring prevention field for the entire chapel... that would have been a waste of energy (apart from being pretty damned impressive).  He simply created a prevention field around himself... probably to a radius of about ten feet.

David merely conjured himself to a point outside the conjuring prevention field.

Eric Storm

Okay, just my perspective... but an immortal being, at least in the long run, is probably going to come to the conclusion that most people lie and do it regularly.  They lie to themselves, they lie to their friends, they lie to their family, they lie to practically everyone.  Now the degree of lie may be arguable, ranging from the little white lie in order to spare someones feeling to the big fat whoppers like 'it's your baby' or 'I did not kill John Doe.'

Levi Dailey called Dean Lengal a mercenary bitch he bribed along with the minister of education.  He also mentioned bribing a couple other instructors, implying two or three instructors but probably less then a handful.  I would say you could rule out Louisa Fibblebitz.  Not much reason to maintain the lie after being kicked out of the school.  I also think anyone attacked by one of Levi Dailey's agents probably wouldn't be on his payroll since they might figure it out and then spill the beans.  So that would rule out Sam, Louisa, and Ellen Abernathy.  Was Quayde paid to hate David?  I doubt it.  You have to wonder about 'the board of discipline' though.  After all they must of voted to allow David into teacher housing while later trying to screw his security work.  Seems to me that Levi Dailey sought out people with flawed characters to do his dirty work... Rob Beckel, Sherry Padman, Lydia, etc.. I guess you could include Dean Lengal and the minister of education in the flawed character category.  Some on the board of discipline might fall into that category also... not sure who else.

What about the magistrate that supposedly sent out feelers for a school to take in David for his education?  David wasn't exactly given a chance to pick between schools.  Was the magistrate bribed as well?  Didn't sound like it.  So why wasn't any other Dean of a school coming to see David (other then it wasn't in the script that is)?

If you believe and follow Levi Dailey's statement, it can lead down a very deep and dark rabbit hole possibly with no answers.  If he shrugs it off as the irrelevance that is, he will probably be happier in the long run.

Now, I'm sure David is going to investigate it... I'm just not sure he's going to like the outcome very much.  It may even make his life miserable for quite some time.  I guess, I just think it is a pointless story arc, in my opinion.

What about the ghosts at Mount Woodward?  They by sheer chance never heard it being mentioned, or witnessed the business dealings between a teacher and Levi Dailey?  Why wouldn't they spill the beans to David after he became their friends?  Not admissible in court, but I think David could trust quite a few of the ghosts at Mount Woodward.

Last edited by Barbarian3165 (2018-04-07 09:14:01)

Barbarian3165 wrote:

Okay, just my perspective... but an immortal being, at least in the long run, is probably going to come to the conclusion that most people lie and do it regularly.  They lie to themselves, they lie to their friends, they lie to their family, they lie to practically everyone.  Now the degree of lie may be arguable, ranging from the little white lie in order to spare someones feeling to the big fat whoppers like 'it's your baby' or 'I did not kill John Doe.'

And here we have where your problem is.  You have hold of the wrong word entirely.  Yes, everybody lies.  Simply being lied to in the way you suggest would not be David's problem.  The word you should be discussing is betrayal.  Yes, everybody lies.  But there is a colossal difference between, "No, honey, that dress doesn't make your butt look too big," and, "No, I've never cheated on you," when you've had six mistresses over the course of your marriage.  One is, as you say, essentially harmless.  The other is a trust issue.  Were the wife to find out the truth of the second, she would be insane to ever trust her husband again.  THAT is the issue before David.  Not "a lie": betrayal.

Levi Dailey called Dean Lengal a mercenary bitch he bribed along with the minister of education.  He also mentioned bribing a couple other instructors, implying two or three instructors but probably less then a handful.  I would say you could rule out Louisa Fibblebitz.  Not much reason to maintain the lie after being kicked out of the school.

You sure about that?  As he did still keep in touch, she could be as useful to Dailey as an information source as Lydia.

I also think anyone attacked by one of Levi Dailey's agents probably wouldn't be on his payroll since they might figure it out and then spill the beans.  So that would rule out Sam, Louisa, and Ellen Abernathy.

Unless, along with payment, Dailey had sent along a warning:  Tell David, and you will become my next target.  They know what this man is capable of doing.  Lots of people will do things they really don't want to, especially just keeping their mouth shut, out of fear.  And before you say, "They wouldn't do that, it's not in their nature"... Remember that if Dailey's words are true, you do not know these people at all.

What about the magistrate that supposedly sent out feelers for a school to take in David for his education?  David wasn't exactly given a chance to pick between schools.  Was the magistrate bribed as well?  Didn't sound like it.  So why wasn't any other Dean of a school coming to see David (other then it wasn't in the script that is)?

If the dean of Woodward Academy is willing to take in the student, why would any other academy even bother to make an offer?

If you believe and follow Levi Dailey's statement, it can lead down a very deep and dark rabbit hole possibly with no answers.  If he shrugs it off as the irrelevance that is, he will probably be happier in the long run.

First off, anyone who thinks that the issue of betrayal is an "irrelevance"... is not someone I want as a friend.  Second, no, David could never be happy around these people without knowing the truth, because he would never be able to trust their actions toward him.  Are they doing it because they've been paid by someone else, now that Dailey is gone?  Is the Dailey family itself still out to get him through them?  What portions of his past interaction should he believe?

I really can't believe that you would be okay living a life surrounded by people you don't know whether or not you can trust, and just pretending that you can.

Now, I'm sure David is going to investigate it... I'm just not sure he's going to like the outcome very much.  It may even make his life miserable for quite some time.  I guess, I just think it is a pointless story arc, in my opinion.

You're entitled to your opinion, but that you would still think, after seven books, that David would choose to live with an unknown, rather than find the truth - whatever it is - means you haven't been paying attention.

What about the ghosts at Mount Woodward?  They by sheer chance never heard it being mentioned, or witnessed the business dealings between a teacher and Levi Dailey?  Why wouldn't they spill the beans to David after he became their friends?  Not admissible in court, but I think David could trust quite a few of the ghosts at Mount Woodward.

First, David was warned that ghosts would not like him, so it is entirely possible that they are in on it, as well.  More probably, however, is simply that they have not been told.  We know from previous books how easy it is to keep ghosts from witnessing conversations: a simple ghost prevention device would suffice.  As such, they have not necessarily been privy to any incriminating conversations.  As such, all they would have to go on would be the behavior they see toward David... and that would put them in the same boat as David himself.

neolyn wrote:

Well, she's relevant if when she's here she does something to move the story forward ? Like being supportive to David or better yet, since she has a knack to combine technology and magic, make something that could be very useful in the war ? Like a communication device which make spying mirror communication impossible

How would this combine technology and magic?  The mirrors are a pure magic device, using high-level divination.  Technology has no access to the magical energy, so there is no way in which this could be done.

(or load magic missiles on her flying seggway or uploading every martial arts on her buttletron and send him fight the weres xD) ?

I'll assume that both of these are just silliness.

Just hope she's happy with Jess. :  )
She's always saying that David is her bestie but what is she David bestie ? I mean, we know about Olissa since he kept reminding everyone, but he never really talked about Gwen .

Not even sure I entirely understand this question, due to your grammar.  I think you're asking how Gwen can be David's best friend, since he never talks about her.  First off, you don't know whether he talks about her or not, because you haven't heard every word uttered by him.  The words you do hear uttered by him regarding his friends are usually about either sex, or a problem they're having, or that he's having that will involve them.  None of those things describes Gwen.  She and David don't have sex, and she is not having problems he needs to help with.  As such, she doesn't get mentioned in the books very often.  She will appear in Chapter 11 of book 7, and sporadically after that.  No, Gwen is not going to become a sudden military tech genius for the war effort.  Her primary role is going to be supporting David by helping Olissa perform the tasks he's set forth for her.  As such, she will be "present" frequently.  Whether you consider that relevant is up to you.

Almost an unrelated subject but do you plan to add more pictures of Woodward Academy ? Kinda want to know more precisely how the characters look like.

Both of the image series currently attached to Woodward have been abandoned.  I will eventually start a new image series, designed for the standard 16:9 widescreen monitor, with (hopefully) better character images and more realistic settings.  When that will happen is up in the air.  Probably not before the end of book 8.

Eric Storm

bigfoot wrote:

Eric - other than Sam, do we know what professors were at the table when David gave Lydia Vampiric Vengeance? I ask in particular to find out if Dean Lengel was present. It would also make sense that the regulars (Sam, Ellen, Cat, Charlie, Endora, etc.,) would sit together. I ask because Lydia revealed Levi Dailey's name at the table and there was no mention of a reaction. If Emile were there and Levi's name were revealed, had she conspired with him, her reaction would have been telling.

Except that, if she has been able to deceive David for seven years - remember, this is someone who is a natural investigator and fairly observant - she would have to have iron control of her reactions to things, so chances are she wouldn't have had any reaction at all, at least visibly.  And even if she had gotten nervous (which would have been her only real reaction, even if she'd had one), David wasn't looking for reactions to the name, he was interested in the name itself.  Even if she gave some kind of facial expression that would have been, as you put it, telling... David would not have seen it.

I should also point out that people you call "regulars" are David's friends, but they are not necessarily close to each other.  For instance, we know that Sam and Cat do not frequently socialize.

That said, perhaps the best thing David could do would be to simply ask Emile about her relationship to Levi Dailey - not in an accusatorial tone but as one person seeking information, a piece to the puzzle ("Emile, I want to ask you about somebody who claims to know you..."). David should be able to gain valuable insight based on her reaction. Plus, he'd be able to tell if she were lying.

Okay, first, he would not necessarily be able to tell if she was lying.  Divination is not a perfect lie detector, especially if the target knows how to block such things without raising suspicion (remember, impedivating is stronger than blockbusting, so yes, it is possible to block such a shallow divination with impedivating.)

See, this is actually the crux of the whole thing.  He can't guarantee that he would know the truth after talking to her.  If his divinatory lie detector was foolproof, yes, he could just go up and ask her about Levi Dailey, and whether she knew him.  But since he can't "know" the truth of her response, it's a useless question.  It isn't in any way informative.

I also think revealing Emile to be a "traitor" to David was simply another method of mental torture Dailey planned to exploit as the immortal being was imprisoned for eternity.

Did Dailey show any indication that he gave a damn what happened to David after he was imprisoned?  Seems strange that he would use this one iffy line to instigate emotional torture on his victim.

On the other hand, it is possible that he was using it as an emotional distraction to help him win the fight...

To believe Emile BETRAYED David, we have to believe she knew about Dailey's plan to eventually imprison David. I do not believe that to be the case. Did he influence her to get David admitted to Woodward? Possibly. Maybe even probably, but that doesn't meet the standard for betrayal as her job is to educate the best students possible. If David qualified, he qualified regardless whether he was a demighost, human, vampire or bigfoot. Woodward is one of the few schools that welcomes different races as students so it fits that Emile would have no problem with a demighost, particularly if he had the proper attitude and demeanor (remember when they first met at the detention facility?).

But it wouldn't be just a matter of admitting him to the school.  There would also be all of the extra duties she chose him for, purportedly because she felt he was the most qualified person for the position, but what if she was simply doing what Dailey told her to do for David?  What if Dailey himself killed the old Information Officer, to give David that position?  What if the DIRT team had been "seeded" in such a way that David was virtually guaranteed to end up as leader?  (I say virtually because people can do the damnedest things when you don't expect it...)  We know that Dailey was, in a roundabout sense, responsible for Seth's resignation and David's ascension to the position of Chief of Security.  What if, had that failed, Dailey had planned to kill Seth outright?

This one little statement, the possibilities it opens up... it's very insidious.  If what Dailey is suggesting has any truth, no major event in David's demighost "life" can be guaranteed to be a genuine one.

Or, as I said, it could all be just a bunch of bullshit that Dailey dreamed up to fuck with David's head.

Not knowing, in this case, is actually much worse than a nasty truth, because it causes you to question everything.  The nasty truth you will eventually put behind you.  Not knowing the truth will always haunt you.  It's the difference between having a wound that heals, and a festering wound that remains open.

Eric Storm