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#1 2021-01-18 23:35:19

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Request for Comment

Okay, so PayPal is becoming even more annoying, and lots of people aren't getting the "return to vendor" link when they make donations.  Without that link, there is no automated donation logging system, and everything has to be handled manually.  This removes the one and only benefit PayPal was giving me for accepting donations.

As such, I think it's time to take a look at the alternatives again.  I would like feedback on the following options, particularly from those folks who make donations frequently.  Do you use any of these?  Do you HATE any of these?  Would you prefer any of them over PayPal, given that I will probably be making the entire process manual in the near future?  (Meaning I will have to handle everything manually; you will have to wait for me to acknowledge your donation; there won't be any automation to it.)  To those who do not donate:  would you be more likely to do so, if I accepted one of these other methods?

Venmo:
    Pro: Costs me nothing.
    Con: Will cost the donor 3% if they use a credit card to fund the transaction.  (Otherwise, it doesn't cost them anything, either.)
    Con?: Requires using the Venmo app (they are removing web support for making/receiving payments.)
    Con: Venmo is owned by PayPal.

CashApp:
    Pro: Costs me nothing.
    Con: Will cost the donor 3% if they use a credit card.  (Otherwise, it doesn't cost them anything, either.)
    Con?: Requires using the app.

Zelle:
    Pro: Costs me nothing.
    Pro: Costs the donor nothing.
    Con?: Requires the Zelle app to send funds, if the donor's bank doesn't support Zelle directly.

Google Pay:
    Pro: Costs me nothing.
    Pro: Costs the donor nothing.
    Con?: Requires using the (NEW) Google Pay app.  (The old G Pay is being phased out of existence.)
    Con: It's Google.

BuyMeACoffee:
    Pro: Costs the donor nothing.
    Pro: Still uses a web interface.
    Con: Costs me 5% of each transaction
    Con: Works through PayPal, so is mainly a PayPal front-end.

SubscribeStar:
    Pro: Costs the donor nothing*
    Pro: Has a no-censorship policy
    Con: Costs me 7.9% + 30¢ per transaction.  (That works out to 12.9% of a $6 donation, and 10.4% of a $12 donation.)
    Con?: Is a subscription model, not a one-time-donation model

* Subscribestar specifically mentions that they will charge VAT on subscriptions, and they will also charge international transaction fees.  Those fees cost the donor, not me.

I should point out that they are ALL phasing out web-based payments in favor of requiring their app, for whatever reason... my guess is they like shitting on people who have difficulty with smartphones.  (like... ME.)  PayPal hasn't announced this yet, but they are strongly pushing their app right now, which means this change is probably coming soon, at least for P2P transactions.  (That's a guess on my part, obviously...)

Comments?  I have looked at a few other services, as well, and found they were either too complicated to get started with (I don't want to make people jump through hoops to give me money, which is why I consider the whole "Must have an app" thing to be a con...) or they were aimed at businesses instead of P2P transactions.

Of course, there are three other methods for sending donations.  They aren't as flexible, but they're still useful to me.  That is, an e-gift card to either Amazon, Walmart, or Publix, the three (actually four, since Walmart gift cards work at Sam's Club) places I primarily buy stuff.

Let me know what your thoughts are, please.  I'm trying to make this easy on the donors.  I have all the time in the world to dick around with this shit.

Eric Storm

PS:  For reference:

PayPal:
    Pro:  Everyone already knows how to use it.
    Pro:  No cost to donors.
    Con: Cost to me is 2.9% + 30¢ per transaction.  That works out to 7.9% of a $6 donation, and 5.4% of a $12 donation.
    Con?: Liable to need their app soon to send/receive money.


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#2 2021-01-19 18:45:44

Hakhazar
Inebriated
Registered: 2009-10-09
Posts: 45

Re: Request for Comment

If it's going to be manual anyway, I'd rather see it stay at Paypal. I don't use any of the others and I'm unlikely to install any of their apps.

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#3 2021-01-19 19:28:45

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: Request for Comment

Even if you're going to have to install a PayPal app soon?  Because that looks to be the way everyone is headed...

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#4 2021-01-19 20:08:20

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: Request for Comment

Added BuyMeACoffee to the list, and also added PayPal information as a reference.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#5 2021-01-19 20:48:33

TheirTheyre
Tipsy
Registered: 2015-03-23
Posts: 3

Re: Request for Comment

FWIW as a data point, I have Venmo, Paypal, and Google Pay, so I'm good with any of those...

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#6 2021-01-21 00:46:35

Hakhazar
Inebriated
Registered: 2009-10-09
Posts: 45

Re: Request for Comment

I don't believe that it will happen. There are too many people who still shop on the desktops (like me) for them to remove the web-only access.


Eric Storm wrote:

Even if you're going to have to install a PayPal app soon?  Because that looks to be the way everyone is headed...

Eric Storm

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#7 2021-01-21 01:22:55

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: Request for Comment

Oh, they won't remove the store payment by web.  But the system that I use with PayPal is not the same thing.  What you do when you send me a donation is the equivalent of a person-to-person transfer.  And those?  I'd be willing to bet actual money that they will eventually remove the ability to do that over the web.  And I make that bet based on the simple fact that every other service I've checked is already doing it.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#8 2021-01-21 18:48:54

Hakhazar
Inebriated
Registered: 2009-10-09
Posts: 45

Re: Request for Comment

Ah. I send chunks at a time, so I haven't done it often enough to notice that it was the p-p version, not that I use that one much at all. If the only option is apps or snail-mail/gift cards, I'd go the latter route.

Eric Storm wrote:

Oh, they won't remove the store payment by web.  But the system that I use with PayPal is not the same thing.  What you do when you send me a donation is the equivalent of a person-to-person transfer.  And those?  I'd be willing to bet actual money that they will eventually remove the ability to do that over the web.  And I make that bet based on the simple fact that every other service I've checked is already doing it.

Eric Storm

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#9 2021-01-21 22:54:03

crypticbyte
Tipsy
Registered: 2020-04-23
Posts: 8

Re: Request for Comment

Any particular reason why aren't you considering a standard payment gateway (like "stripe" for example)?
The costs should be similar to paypal and they all have web interfaces as well as many integrations for other apps (like paypal and google pay).

Also, patreon has APIs which allow for custom integrations, though that would be a significant amount of work for you to implement and a change of donation model (monthly instead of single larger donation).

Personally, I would probably stop donating if app is required as I don't really install apps on my phone unless I really need them (though google pay would work for me, I think)

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#10 2021-01-22 00:45:15

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: Request for Comment

Hakhazar wrote:

Ah. I send chunks at a time, so I haven't done it often enough to notice that it was the p-p version, not that I use that one much at all.

Well, it's not like you'd really recognize it as such, since you don't have to go through the whole bit of entering my email address to figure out who to send it to... but unlike when you shop at a store and pay with PayPal, when you send me money, you pick the amount, not the store.  And you'll never be able to use PayPal one-click to send me a donation.

crypticbyte wrote:

Any particular reason why aren't you considering a standard payment gateway (like "stripe" for example)?
The costs should be similar to paypal and they all have web interfaces as well as many integrations for other apps (like paypal and google pay).

Stripe is geared directly at business.  Using it as a private individual is cumbersome.  To work with Stripe (or any other processor of this type) requires a lot of programming and legal hoops.  The money is not accessible immediately (Processors have to worry about chargebacks), and, in general, it's just very difficult for a single individual to work within such a system.

Also, patreon has APIs which allow for custom integrations, though that would be a significant amount of work for you to implement and a change of donation model (monthly instead of single larger donation).

Yes, they also have stringent censorship policies that several of my stories would violate.

Personally, I would probably stop donating if app is required as I don't really install apps on my phone unless I really need them (though google pay would work for me, I think)

*shrugs*  The whole "requires an app" thing isn't my doing, nor my choice.  I spend 95% of my day sitting at my computer; I would much prefer a web interface, as my computer, unlike my smartphone, is set up for me to be able to more easily see what I'm doing.  But, as I said, I fully expect PayPal to eventually require their app, as well, so it's not like I'm going to actually have a choice in that regard.

However, you will always have the option of donating via e-gift card, which doesn't require an app.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#11 2021-01-22 00:53:25

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: Request for Comment

Added SubscribeStar to the list.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#12 2021-01-22 01:01:55

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: Request for Comment

crypticbyte:

Another reason I cannot use a "standard" payment processor:  They do not support payments for adult content.  I know this because I just signed up for Stripe, and they promptly closed my account, because I listed my industry (you are required to tell them) as Adult content.  They do not have an option for "I'm an individual and just want to be able to let people send me money."

Theoretically, I could "fudge" this, but that becomes potentially fraudulent, and I don't like unpleasant interactions with law enforcement.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#13 2021-01-22 07:27:37

ozygonzo
Inebriated
Registered: 2012-03-18
Posts: 16

Re: Request for Comment

I would probably stay with Paypal and install the app just for your writings
if that's alright with you Eric


'I Wish I Was A Glow Worm, A Glow Worm Is Never Glum, Cuz' How can you Be Grumpy, When The Sun Shines Out Your Bum

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#14 2021-01-22 08:39:32

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: Request for Comment

Honestly, because the process is going to be manual no matter what, I am leaning heavily toward "Include almost all options, and let you pick which one you want to use."

Except for SubscribeStar.  The percentages on normal transactions there are just too damned high.  Even on a $20 donation, they're charging the equivalent of 9.4%.  By comparison, PayPal would be less than half that, at 4.4% equivalent.  The vast majority of my donations are below $20, and the percentage only gets worse with smaller donations.

So, I'm thinking to include PayPal, Venmo, CashApp, Zelle, and Google Pay, for the moment.  BMAC, because of its interaction with PayPal, I'm wondering if that 5% isn't in addition to PayPal's fees, which would put them on equal ground with SubscribeStar, as far as cost goes.

*shrugs*  I'll probably make a decision in the next few weeks, and then I'll have to rework the donations pages.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#15 2021-01-22 11:22:59

Desgi
Inebriated
Registered: 2014-10-19
Posts: 14

Re: Request for Comment

I'm good with most of the non-subscription options.  Not a fan of subscrip services since I don't always have funds available on the right days. But yeah, Venmo, cashapp, even googlepay in a pinch would be no problem for me.

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#16 2021-01-22 17:41:21

Elessar
Completely Blotto
Registered: 2009-10-28
Posts: 396

Re: Request for Comment

I already have cash app but would be fine with Venmo or google pay.

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#17 2021-01-22 23:17:12

crypticbyte
Tipsy
Registered: 2020-04-23
Posts: 8

Re: Request for Comment

Eric Storm wrote:

Stripe is geared directly at business.  Using it as a private individual is cumbersome.  To work with Stripe (or any other processor of this type) requires a lot of programming and legal hoops.

Oh, I didn't know that, sorry. In Poland it's not hard for an individual to use a payment gateway (but it does require manual verification). Though it is not really geared toward donations, you're right.

Eric Storm wrote:

Another reason I cannot use a "standard" payment processor:  They do not support payments for adult content.

Interesting, I never though about that, now I wonder which gateways paid adult content websites are using...

Eric Storm wrote:

Yes, they also have stringent censorship policies that several of my stories would violate.

Really? It's the first time I hear about that, though I'm not really a user of patreon nor a creator - just got developer experience with it.

Eric Storm wrote:

*shrugs*  The whole "requires an app" thing isn't my doing, nor my choice.  I spend 95% of my day sitting at my computer; I would much prefer a web interface, as my computer, unlike my smartphone, is set up for me to be able to more easily see what I'm doing.  But, as I said, I fully expect PayPal to eventually require their app, as well, so it's not like I'm going to actually have a choice in that regard.

However, you will always have the option of donating via e-gift card, which doesn't require an app.

I understand that, I strongly prefer web interfaces myself, though for very different reasons. Thanks for reminding me of the gift card option, I might go that route (also that doesn't add a transaction fee for you, right? I never used gift cards).

With all that, if I can help with automating the donation processing I'm willing to donate my work and code. I really enjoy automating stuff, especially things that seem impossible to do  (plus, the less time you spend on donation processing the more time you have to create amazing content for all of us to enjoy!).  If you'd be interested send me an email.

PS. Re-reading the post before posting I realized how much "I don't know"-s are there, I really need to work less and look around me more. If only days had like 40 hours or so...

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#18 2021-01-22 23:30:28

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: Request for Comment

crypticbyte wrote:

Eric Storm wrote:

Another reason I cannot use a "standard" payment processor:  They do not support payments for adult content.

Interesting, I never though about that, now I wonder which gateways paid adult content websites are using...

There are "special" payment processors that work with adult websites.  The hoops THEY make you jump through are downright excessive.  (Adult websites are considered financial risks due to all the legalities involved.)  Those processors also take a much bigger cut.

Eric Storm wrote:

Yes, they also have stringent censorship policies that several of my stories would violate.

Really? It's the first time I hear about that, though I'm not really a user of patreon nor a creator - just got developer experience with it.

Patreon has a zero-tolerance policy for anything involving underage sex.  They also have a policy against "incest as a fetish".  I'm also not sure whether the interspecies sex in both Woodward and Justice Seven would violate their zero-tolerance policy for bestiality.

Thanks for reminding me of the gift card option, I might go that route (also that doesn't add a transaction fee for you, right? I never used gift cards).

Correct.  e-gift cards are completely "free" to both sides, except for whatever the value of the card is.

With all that, if I can help with automating the donation processing I'm willing to donate my work and code. I really enjoy automating stuff, especially things that seem impossible to do  (plus, the less time you spend on donation processing the more time you have to create amazing content for all of us to enjoy!).  If you'd be interested send me an email.

Careful what you're offering.  I have this website that needs updating........   3dangel

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#19 2021-01-24 00:27:44

crypticbyte
Tipsy
Registered: 2020-04-23
Posts: 8

Re: Request for Comment

Thanks for taking the time to explain all that to me, it's probably easy to look up... I didn't check 3dangel

Eric Storm wrote:

With all that, if I can help with automating the donation processing I'm willing to donate my work and code. I really enjoy automating stuff, especially things that seem impossible to do  (plus, the less time you spend on donation processing the more time you have to create amazing content for all of us to enjoy!).  If you'd be interested send me an email.

Careful what you're offering.  I have this website that needs updating........   3dangel

I would probably enjoy doing that as well! I'm more into embedded systems (like electrical grid management, street light solutions, petrol station price pole displays and such), but I work with web technologies a bit too and find it quite relaxing actually. Though please don't send me that email until like mid-February, I do have an engeneering degree to get and everything is better than writing my thesis 3dsmile (which I should have handed in in December, but there was sooo much other stuff to do...)

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#20 2021-01-24 01:16:58

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: Request for Comment

Strange you should mention mid-February... That's when I wanted it finished by!  ROFLMAO

3dlol

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#21 2021-01-24 01:21:04

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: Request for Comment

Seriously, though, if you are actually interested in donating some programming time to create The Pub ver. 2.0, contact me when you think you'll have the time to do it... and after you've done whatever refamiliarization with HTML/PHP/SQLite/Javascript/jQuery you might need to do. 

But don't feel obligated.  It's waited 10 years, it can wait a while longer for me to get off my ass and do it...

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#22 2021-01-24 01:37:01

crypticbyte
Tipsy
Registered: 2020-04-23
Posts: 8

Re: Request for Comment

I'll send you an email once I hand in my thesis, that will be a fun project 3dbig_smile

Dang it... wheels are already turning in my head...

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#23 2021-01-28 19:46:49

bistander
Wasted
Registered: 2015-09-03
Posts: 239

Re: Request for Comment

I read the back and forth comments for a while then realized I'd be here all day, so I skipped to the bottom. Here I am.

It's been like pulling my teeth. but the fuckin' powers that control these things have forced my hand. I now use apps on my phone. Eventually, I'll get in line for the chip in my head so they always know where I am and what I'm doing.

I think you should aim for the options that cost you and us as close to nothing as possible. I know my bank supports Zelle, and I'm already using Google pay, or at least that's what my phone tells me when I'm paying for something. The rest of the time it pops up Samsung pay and tries to get me to sign up for that. Samsung should stick to making hardware and stop trying to force their software down my throat or I'll be buying a different phone next time.

In the end, I'll work with whatever you decide because this is one of the few sites I know of that provides an uncensored platform for our stories. Thanks, Eric.

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#24 2021-01-28 22:37:02

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: Request for Comment

They already implanted your chip.  Remember that last hospital visit?  No, you only think you do...

misch_smiley

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#25 2021-06-23 06:57:03

Sandal
Tipsy
Registered: 2015-07-29
Posts: 1

Re: Request for Comment

Eric Storm wrote:

Yes, they also have stringent censorship policies that several of my stories would violate.
Patreon has a zero-tolerance policy for anything involving underage sex.  They also have a policy against "incest as a fetish".  I'm also not sure whether the interspecies sex in both Woodward and Justice Seven would violate their zero-tolerance policy for bestiality.

Eric Storm

I don‘t think their rules apply to fictional content that you create.
Actually they explicitly state that fictional content like Lolita is ok.
There are other Authors on Patreon that i follow that write about controversial subjects like incest.
Two examples are Mike Loucks (incest, underage sex) and Annabelle Hawthorne (interspecies sex).
I like that i can just subscribe and the authors get my contribution automatically.
Maybe take a closer look at their  guidelines?

Sandal

Edit: typos

Last edited by Sandal (2021-06-23 06:57:22)

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