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#126 2019-04-23 04:49:23

bigfoot
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Like you said Eric, Ellie hated living in Callamandia but that was before she actually moved to Earth. Sometimes, the reality of a situation is far worse than the hope or the expectation. Add that to the inevitable growth that comes with being on your own, being responsible for everything, etc., and perhaps she'd view Callamandia with less hatred, particuarly if she missed her family/friends. I'm not saying it's enough for her to move back to Duggera but to perhaps to re-establish communication with her family or even occasionally visit.

As to why there would be a club in NY that caters to people from Duggera... Seriously? There is a club in my town that caters to people who dress like mascots and sing karaoke. I do not know the demographical breakdown of Duggeran citizens living in the US but if there are enough congregated around a certain area and it is known to Duggerans, the club would exist for the reason any other club exists, to make money. That Duggerans know about it and chose to be around other Duggerans is just a feature.

As to the Gwen sleeping with David question, the ONLY thing I can think of is if Gwen started questioning her relationship with Jess and wondered if she were truly 100% lesbian. Chalk it up to growing and being around other couples that are perhaps bi and wondering if she is somehow unfulfilled. The ony one she ever had bg sex with was David and he is the only one she trusts to help her figure out what's going on. Mind you, I think getting David and Gwen together again is a terrible idea, but that is the ony reason I can think of...

Last edited by bigfoot (2019-04-23 04:50:23)

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#127 2019-04-23 05:04:49

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

...So, in the middle of a war, David is working on a potion to make himself fertile????  Why would he do this?  Why would he even do this during peace time?  He's shown no irritation at not being able to have children.

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#128 2019-04-23 19:57:03

Icehawk101
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From: Toronto, ON, CA
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

thehilz wrote:

Perhaps David finds a way to give himself semen and Gwen wants a child and ask David to be the father. And for some reason or another artificial insemination is not a option.

That's a bit of a stretch. And by a bit, I mean like a mile long 3dtongue

Last edited by Icehawk101 (2019-04-23 19:58:59)

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#129 2019-04-24 01:42:41

thehilz
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Never said it was a potion. Just that he found a way to do it. Could be he stumbled upon something while researching for something else and files it away as something to look into if he ever wants to have a child.

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#130 2019-04-24 02:17:47

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Right.  Because there are so many "let's help the demighosts" scrolls out there...

Eric Storm


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#131 2019-04-24 02:19:36

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Oh, and just to nitpick the hell out of this:

David HAS semen.  He has no SPERM.  Semen is the liquid which carries the sperm.  Since I've mentioned him ejaculating, he must have semen.

3dtongue

Eric Storm


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#132 2019-04-24 03:56:27

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Sorry I somehow missed this post.  I guess it got overlooked withe thehilz posting his... uh... notion of David fathering children.

bigfoot wrote:

Like you said Eric, Ellie hated living in Callamandia but that was before she actually moved to Earth. Sometimes, the reality of a situation is far worse than the hope or the expectation. Add that to the inevitable growth that comes with being on your own, being responsible for everything, etc., and perhaps she'd view Callamandia with less hatred, particuarly if she missed her family/friends. I'm not saying it's enough for her to move back to Duggera but to perhaps to re-establish communication with her family or even occasionally visit.

Okay, all of those "responsibility issues" would be exactly the same in Dugerra (And please start spelling the goddamned name correctly!).  Dugerra offers no freedom from her being responsible for everything, unless she were to move back in with her parents.  I cannot see her being allowed to do that, let alone wanting to.  Even if she came to realize that she was in the wrong for her behavior, I cannot imagine her wanting to live in a physical reminder of her idiocy.

Keep in mind, she started out with $10,000 and a job.  Unless she is COMPLETELY irresponsible, she's not going to be suffering financially for a while...

As to why there would be a club in NY that caters to people from Duggera... Seriously? There is a club in my town that caters to people who dress like mascots and sing karaoke. I do not know the demographical breakdown of Duggeran citizens living in the US but if there are enough congregated around a certain area and it is known to Duggerans, the club would exist for the reason any other club exists, to make money. That Duggerans know about it and chose to be around other Duggerans is just a feature.

Okay, first, there would be almost no "Dugerrans" in Earth.  There would be "wizards".  They are not the same thing.  Ellie is a Dugerran: born in Dugerra.  David is a wizard, he is NOT a Dugerran.

Now, here's the thing about the concept you're raising:  The vast, HUGE majority of wizards in Earth have no interest in Dugerra at all.  They attended school just long enough to get their wizarding license.  So there would be no market for a club that catered to an interest in Dugerra.  There would be virtually no clientele.  Now, there could be a club for wizards, and probably would be, but why would a fringe group fighting a war in Dugerra, go to an Earth night club to have their discussions?  They could meet at the public library for all anyone in Earth would care.  Or just meet at a house, hotel room, or any other place where they could talk in private.  It makes exactly zero sense for them to be visiting a place where Ellie could run into contact with them accidentally.

As to the Gwen sleeping with David question, the ONLY thing I can think of is if Gwen started questioning her relationship with Jess and wondered if she were truly 100% lesbian.

"It felt good, but it didn't feel right,"... pretty conclusive evidence there on whether she likes guys...

Chalk it up to growing and being around other couples that are perhaps bi and wondering if she is somehow unfulfilled. The ony one she ever had bg sex with was David

Not true.  I made it clear in their sex scene that she was not a virgin.

and he is the only one she trusts to help her figure out what's going on. Mind you, I think getting David and Gwen together again is a terrible idea, but that is the ony reason I can think of...

"together again" seems a stretch from "having sex one more time."  I feel as though Gwen has gotten cheated, since I'm not a fan of pure FF scenes, she's only had the one scene in seven whole books so far.

But until neolyn comes forth with the one or two ideas he said he had...  *shrugs*

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#133 2019-04-24 04:33:19

bigfoot
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Registered: 2016-05-06
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Apologies for the mispelling of Dugerra. I look forward to writing what I think are valid suggestions and having you shoot down each one like I'm an idiot. My mother used to do that and frankly, I miss it. Weird, huh?

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#134 2019-04-24 05:29:35

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

I will assume that the last was sarcasm, which leaves me with three options, one unacceptable, and two unpalatable.

First, I can take all of your ideas as the way I need to take the story.  This is simply not going to happen.
Second, I can just not respond to any of your ideas.  I consider this unconscionably rude.
Third, I can simply say, "No, your idea doesn't work," without any explanation at all.  I consider this almost as rude as not responding at all.

If you felt like I was treating you like an idiot... I'm sorry, but really, that's on you.  Did I have a problem with your idea?  Absolutely, and I told you what it was.  I do this to my reviewers constantly.  The point isn't for you to be discouraged or offended.  The point is for you to improve your idea.  Look, there's only one of us who will ever have a complete understanding of the universe in which these characters live: me.  Because I am that universe's God, I know what can and can't happen, and you don't.  Therefore, when you present an idea, I have to evaluate it against what can and can't happen.  If your idea can't happen, then it falls on me to explain why it can't happen.  Again, not to belittle you or to even make fun of your idea, but because, without that information, you can't come up with a better idea.  Look, I appreciate that you presented an idea.  I would like you to continue to do so.  I wish more people gave ideas.  But yes, when there's a problem, I'm going to say, "Okay, here's what's wrong with that idea..."

I don't even begin to claim to have a corner on ideas for my stories.  I can't count the number of reader contributions that have made it into the final versions of my books.  I make no bones about that; in fact, I welcome the input.  But I'm not going to just blithely accept any idea, and I AM going to explain why I reject an idea, because doing anything else is rude.

You have been around this site long enough by now to know that I don't do the little diplomatic dance.  I speak directly, because I find anything else both tedious and slightly dishonest.  Some people don't like that about me.  Oh well.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#135 2019-04-24 06:01:32

Barbarian3165
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Registered: 2015-02-11
Posts: 329

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Huh?  Hybrid demighost-human?  I think that would be weird, if not improbable.  Procreation for demighosts is, I'm guessing, impossible because of the curse.  Besides, a not so insignificant portion of women seeking volunteer sperm don't want to know the doners identity.

Let's not forget that demighosts are supposed to be exceedingly rare.  I wouldn't be surprised if there were less then 50 or 100 in total... and a lot of those may have been imprisoned by the Daily family.

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#136 2019-04-24 09:19:11

bigfoot
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Registered: 2016-05-06
Posts: 139

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Eric - I meant no disrespect and I've seen your response to people who argue with you. I was not doing that. You are correct in that you are the God of this Universe and what you say goes. I have absolutely no problem with that. If anything, I respect the hell out of your ability to NOT screw things up. You put a great deal of thought into your responses as well as your writing. As a fan, I've made suggestions. As a reasonably intelligent guy, I've made what I thought were good suggestions and to date, you've shot most of them down. I applaud your ability to inhabit this world while taking the time to explain to us (or, oh hell,  ME) why my ideas don't work. Do not change a thing and I apologize if my attempt at humor set you off. Peace.

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#137 2019-04-24 16:58:40

Eric Storm
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From: New Port Richey, FL
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Barbarian

I don't think the scenario offered with Gwen would be considered in any way a "typical" scenario.  Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that David could find a way to father a child.  As you point out, the outcome of that is uncertain in status.  Would it be a demighost?  A regular human?  Some kind of mix?  That would be a complete unknown.  Therefore, it would be smart of Gwen to keep David in the child's life, just in case his guidance (for the child) is needed.  Plus, keep in mind that the concept included the notion that artificial insemination was, for some reason, unavailable as an option.

I'm not saying this makes sense within the world of Dugerra.  I'm just saying that the whole "wouldn't want to know the donor" thing probably wouldn't apply in this case.  Also, the reason demighosts are infertile is simply because fertility isn't a necessary function.  Demighosts are magically supported to have necessary functions.  (Before someone says it, sex is a necessary function, psychologically.  You spend eternity without that feeling of intimacy, you are going to go stark raving mad.  The drive to have children is about perpetuating your legacy.  This is hardly a problem if you never die: you ARE your legacy.)

bigfoot:  No harm, no foul.  As you say, others HAVE gotten in my face in regards to my response to their suggestion.  I didn't read your comment as humor, but a similar complaint.  Not sure whether that's my fault or yours, so we'll just call it even.  I wasn't really angered by what I thought you were saying, just somewhat distressed.  So, since it was all more or less a misunderstanding, we'll just call it water under the bridge.

(What?  What do you mean the pillars aren't shored up?  What... the water... no!  We just sent the water under the bridge!  No!  Oh, no, it's crumbling....  Oh, the humanity! .....  What?  What do you mean I'm standing on the bridge?  No, the bridge is over... there...but...goes...     Oh shit.)

3dsmile

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#138 2019-04-24 21:22:21

darthel0101
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Registered: 2013-08-18
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

If I can drop 2¢ in the conversation:
1) David is no longer living.
2) Only living creatures can procreate.
3) David will not have sperm because he cannot procreate.

?? However, the concept does bring up an off-the-wall question: Ghosts are non-corporeal and do not possess DNA; does David have DNA in his physical body? If so, what purpose does it fill?

If any of the other undead - vampires (AFTER their turning), liches, doppelgangers, or zombies - have the ability to either get pregnant or cause a pregnancy, then I have misread the situation.

Last edited by darthel0101 (2019-04-24 21:24:16)

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#139 2019-04-25 00:06:38

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Vampires have explicitly been mentioned as having children.  Lydia's mother was a vampire, which is why Lydia is a vampire, so #2 is already out the window.

David would have DNA because he has a body, and DNA is an integral part of your cells.  Since his body still has cells, he still has DNA.  We already know, however, that he does not have sperm.

And you're assuming ghosts don't have DNA.  They would not have solid DNA, but there is no reason that their incorporeal body wouldn't have incorporeal DNA.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#140 2019-04-25 02:33:01

darthel0101
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Thanks for the clarification.

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#141 2019-04-25 16:26:57

bigfoot
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Posts: 139

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Out of curiosity, given that David has DNA, can he be cloned? And if so, would the clone be human or a demighost? If it would be human, any reason it couldn't be implanted in Gwen?

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#142 2019-04-25 18:31:05

Eric Storm
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From: New Port Richey, FL
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Posts: 5745
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

David's DNA is "dead".  It couldn't replicate itself.  I suppose you could, somehow, in theory, use it in cloning, but cloning is not a viable process at the moment...

If you managed to make a clone, it would be fully human, as David's demighost nature was not a matter of his genetics.

Remember, however, that the original issue was about Gwen and David having sex.  Artificial insemination was deemed impossible for some unspecified reason.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#143 2019-04-25 19:01:29

Barbarian3165
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Registered: 2015-02-11
Posts: 329

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

I think I was typing my response above about the same time you were typing your response Eric, you just hit the send button before me.  Anyway, I didn't see your response until after I posted mine.

Sorry for any confusion.

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#144 2019-04-25 20:53:31

bigfoot
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Registered: 2016-05-06
Posts: 139

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

While it's true that cloning doesn't address David-and-Gwen-Getting-Busy Part 2, it does perhaps offer a potential for David to parent at some point in the future (other than adoption). As I understand it, cloning works with some mammals (starting with mice, moving on to cows, sheep and chickens. Other mammals have been cloned including cat, deer, dog, horse, mule, ox, rabbit and rat). Seriously, how far off could humans be? And given the size of David's bank account, he could afford to fund research if he ever wanted his own progeny.

The reason I bring this up is that according to Olissa, David will someday have a woman of his own. Perhaps she'd want children and may want David to father them.

Last edited by bigfoot (2019-04-25 20:53:57)

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#145 2019-04-25 22:48:19

Eric Storm
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From: New Port Richey, FL
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Posts: 5745
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Again, David's DNA is non-replicating  Current cloning is done by taking a donor cell, ripping the nucleus out of it, then taking a surrogate's egg, ripping the nucleus out of THAT, then taking the donor nucleus, jamming it into the egg, shoving it up the surrogate's wahoo, and waiting.

But in order for that to work, the egg cell must replicate itself.  David's DNA is dead, so non-replicating.

Of course, we can delve into the ethicality of snuffing out the possibility of the life that was in the egg to begin with, in favor of our own choice... but that would have to happen in a different forum section.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#146 2019-04-26 14:44:01

justsomeguy
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Registered: 2010-07-11
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Hmmm... I know this is your universe and only you know how it functions, however, is David's DNA dead and as such unable to reproduce, or is it undead and static, unable to change? Does his body regenerate itself, from its own DNA information, or is it reconstructed from a magical master schematic stored in the magic's backup files?

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#147 2019-04-26 16:12:49

Eric Storm
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Posts: 5745
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

I just answered this question.  David's DNA is non-replicating.  It would be impossible for DNA and the body's normal systems to repair David in the short amounts of time it takes him to heal.  Therefore, that process must be magical.  This is why David would be worried about ending up with a rock stuck permanently to his arm in the first chapter: because if it becomes part of him in a magical sense, then it might regenerate just like his body does.

(Whether that's actually true or not, I'm not going to bother answering, because I'm cruel like that.  3dsmile  )

Eric Storm


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#148 2019-04-27 05:10:10

fathertyme
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From: Second star to the right
Registered: 2009-02-18
Posts: 89

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

If there are curses, demons, and spells that can cause a person to turn into a tree...

Then what is saying there is not something that could alter a persons bio-chemical makeup to cause them to need a different kind of fulfillment?

Since Gwen has pretty much implied that if she was attracted to men, David would be her choice. The logical conclusion would be for her to turn to him to deal with sexual needs if this situation were to occur.

Obviously not fleshed out, and there are moral questions David would have to deal with about if it was taking advantage of a friend, the equivalent of rape (does she have a choice?) etc... but it was the germ of an idea

*shrugs*

personally, I like Gwen, but it is unreasonable to think that EVERYONE wants to sleep with David.

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#149 2019-04-27 14:44:01

Eric Storm
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From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

You know, this all seems like a REALLY long way to go for this.

Why hasn't anyone just suggested, "Jess wants to find out what it's like to have sex with a guy, but wants Gwen to participate so she feels safe.  Gwen naturally turns to David."  ?

Or does having Jess involved screw up the whole Gwen-David thing? 
3dsmile

Eric Storm

PS:  Not suggesting that this "makes sense" in the grand scheme of things.  Just pointing out how much simpler the notion COULD be, than all the far-fetched scenarios being offered...


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#150 2019-04-27 16:53:23

thehilz
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Registered: 2010-09-06
Posts: 368

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 8, The

Guess I assumed that Jess already had done that in her past based on when David found them kissing he asked(jokingly) if they(David and Gwen) were going to share Jess too and Jess replies she wasn’t into guys. you have now made me question my assumption

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