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#576 2018-05-11 05:38:18

Eric Storm
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From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

Barbarian3165 wrote:

On the girlfriend issue... I'm voting for Jenny Bishop.  My only reasoning, he put her through rehab and then admitted to Jaila that he was confused or disturbed as to why he did that... underlying attraction maybe?  And no, I don't expect a response, snarky or otherwise.

But snarky is my best kind of response! 

3dbig_smile

I'm waiting for David's potion making to come into the war.  As far as I know, Merlung wasn't released to the public and never published.  David could brew up a big batch to be used durring the war.  I've already covered the use of Bloodbank and the Ghosting potion (don't remember the name) previously.  But I think there is the potential for David's potion making ability to really aid the army.  Even though being locked in a potions lab wouldn't be entertaining to the reader.

It wouldn't require David to make it, anyway.  It would be handled by the potions guild.  But merlung would be of little use unless you were performing an amphibious assault, since this is a land war.

bigfoot wrote:

Eric - I was rereading WAYch10 and have a question. After defeating Dailey, David leaves the Temple of Fire in great pain and asks himself "Why the hell did I leave my NG in the car?"  As Vivian was forced to use levitatin in order to get David out of the Temple, it stands to reason he is in great pain. Why then, did he wait until he was in the peg drawn carriage before taking the Naproxen Ghostium? Presumably, he went from the Temple to his glide car to the carriage. Why not take the NG in the car as it seems that would have taken precedence?

Notice how quickly after taking the painkiller he was asleep?  The pain was keeping him conscious, and he wanted to remain conscious until he was in a place where he could rest for an extended period.

So why did he say what he said in the temple?  Well, he was in a lot of pain.  People don't exactly think clearly under those circumstances.  He needed a minute to realize that making himself unconscious just made Vivian's life more difficult, and could potentially lead to more injuries for himself.  (If he was unconscious, he would not be able to tell her if she was doing something that was causing further pain.)

Eric Storm


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#577 2018-05-13 17:56:39

Barbarian3165
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

I think your underestimating the usefulness of Merlung.  Considering the various waterways between the east coast and the Mississippi, a lot of them were deep enough and wide enough for major transport of cargo as well as people.  Maybe not Mississippi big, but probably at least 100 feet to cross and 20 to 30 feet deep.  Now imagine, a 5 company platoon where one of the companies is special in that they have level 4 impedivance on each member in that one platoon and they carry two or three vials of Merlung that allow a few hours worth of breathing and talking under water.  The rest of the platoon lures the warewolves into a fight near one of these waterways. I think there are then, at least five situations that can arise:

1) The platoon fights with its back against the water and ends up retreating across the water.  The were's follow figuring they've got the wizards on the run.  However, waiting at the bottom of the river is the spare company of wizards.  After the first few were's have crossed the river, that company at the bottom of the river starts casting 'reteni' (a quick and simple spell) on the werewolves swimming over them.  They then allow the werewolves to simply drown in the water.  If the targets were carefully selected and spread out so no large section of werewolves suddenly disappeared under the water, they might not think much of it.  After the werewolves allowed to cross the river have made it up on shore, the company under the water comes up behind them and ambushes them from behind.

2) You have two platoons in the water and the werewolves have their backs to the water fighting the rest of the platoon.  Once in position and fully engaged, the platoon under the water comes up to the edge of the water and starts laying into the backs of the werewolves.

3) Similar to the first scenario except that they start out with the wizards under water and on one side of the river while the werewolves are on the other.  The wizards on dry ground taunt and harass the werewolves until they are dumb enough to charge across the water.  Again simple reteni spells and maybe some aquamandy to decimate the werewolves as they cross the river.

4) One platoon using Merlung and some strong aquamanders march underwater in order to get behind enemy lines.  The aquamanders make it easy to travel against the current of the river by slowing, stopping or reversing the current where the soldiers are marching.  The Second platoon comes into contact and starts fighting the werewolves.  After the werewolves are fully engaged, the platoon under water comes out of the water behind them and attacks into their flanks.

5) A moderate sized force marches underwater behind enemy lines.  Each person is carrying merlung, the ghosting potion (for emergency pull out) and bloodbank to minimize casualties.  They then lay waste to targets of opportunity.  Might focus on supply lines and the like, instead of the fighters.

Fight smarter, not necessarily harder... But fight to win.  And bloodbank might be the only potion of David's that the werewolves might have access to since David released that one into the public domain.  The ghosting potion is virtually unknown except to the few at his masters presentation and maybe the Royal Potions Guild since they probably had to verify that his potions worked so they'd have access to the formulas.

Anyway, just saying I see potential.  I am in no way suggesting you have to use any of this.  After all, it is your story.

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#578 2018-05-13 18:16:42

Crusader
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

Peoples: Can David teleport through ghost prevention spells?
My thought process:
Conjured items dont move, they disapear and reappear.
From what i remember, ghost prevention would stop ghosts from coming or going.

What do you all think?

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#579 2018-05-13 19:12:33

Barbarian3165
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

ghost prevention spells or devices?  I thought they were enchanted devices.  Seems like they act like walls of a box and teleporting allows David to bypass the walls.

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#580 2018-05-13 19:33:20

Eric Storm
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From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

Barbarian3165 wrote:

Now imagine, a 5 company platoon...

I'm having a very hard time doing that, since companies are larger than platoons...

...where one of the companies is special in that they have level 4 impedivance on each member in that one platoon...

Not sure what the point of this was.  I doubt they're going to have time to stop and check each battle with divination.  Plus, a halfway decent diviner knows when impedivation is being used, so this would almost be counterproductive...

The rest of the platoon lures the warewolves into a fight near one of these waterways.

And here's the big problem with most of your scenarios.  A good commander is going to know better.  They are not going to be "lured" into a point between the enemy and the water.  They will certainly press the enemy back toward the water, and we'll cover those problems in a minute...

I think there are then, at least five situations that can arise:

Let's evaluate:


2) You have two platoons in the water and the werewolves have their backs to the water fighting the rest of the platoon.  Once in position and fully engaged, the platoon under the water comes up to the edge of the water and starts laying into the backs of the werewolves.

This option is only possible if the leader of the werewolves is a moron, or if the humans are already winning.  NOBODY starts a battle with their backs to a geographical obstacle.  Therefore, the humans would have to either back them to the water (thus already winning), or manage to surprise them when they are in this particular position.

4) One platoon using Merlung and some strong aquamanders march underwater in order to get behind enemy lines.  The aquamanders make it easy to travel against the current of the river by slowing, stopping or reversing the current where the soldiers are marching.  The Second platoon comes into contact and starts fighting the werewolves.  After the werewolves are fully engaged, the platoon under water comes out of the water behind them and attacks into their flanks.

Do you have any idea how obvious altering the current of a river would be?  In fact, do you have any idea how powerful you'd have to be to do it?  To alter the current, you would have to change where the water - ALL OF THE WATER - is going in that river, because a river's current is caused by the fact that it's flowing from point A to point B.  Thus, the only way to alter that current is to make the water flow to point C.  You cannot "stop" the current, because you would cause a major fucking flood.  In any case, this would be not just visibly noticeable, but visibly unambiguous.  Leaving out this part (choose a river where the current isn't that strong), and ignore the part about "after the weres are fully engaged", thanks to the problem with option 2, then this is possible as more of a sneak attack, but would only work once, because the weres would simply not camp next to rivers anymore, or they would post a line of guards facing the river (something they would probably do, anyway, making this plan dicey to begin with...)

5) A moderate sized force marches underwater behind enemy lines.  Each person is carrying merlung, the ghosting potion (for emergency pull out) and bloodbank to minimize casualties.  They then lay waste to targets of opportunity.  Might focus on supply lines and the like, instead of the fighters.

The most plausible of the five options, but still would only work once.  As soon as you used this tactic, the weres would counter it by either keeping their supply lines away from waterways, or by protecting them with troop units so massive that no covert force would have a chance of success.  The only real way for this technique to work more than once is for the humans to exit the river miles from the target... and this leads to the likelihood of them being discovered before they arrive.  On the other hand, this technique would work very well for small units of just a few people, who are trying to move about and discover things.

1) The platoon fights with its back against the water and ends up retreating across the water.  The were's follow figuring they've got the wizards on the run.  However, waiting at the bottom of the river is the spare company of wizards.  After the first few were's have crossed the river, that company at the bottom of the river starts casting 'reteni' (a quick and simple spell) on the werewolves swimming over them.  They then allow the werewolves to simply drown in the water.  If the targets were carefully selected and spread out so no large section of werewolves suddenly disappeared under the water, they might not think much of it.  After the werewolves allowed to cross the river have made it up on shore, the company under the water comes up behind them and ambushes them from behind.

3) Similar to the first scenario except that they start out with the wizards under water and on one side of the river while the werewolves are on the other.  The wizards on dry ground taunt and harass the werewolves until they are dumb enough to charge across the water.  Again simple reteni spells and maybe some aquamandy to decimate the werewolves as they cross the river.

These two options are completely impossible.  Why?  Because ONLY A COMPLETE IDIOT WOULD ATTEMPT TO SWIM IN THE MIDDLE OF A BATTLE.  You've just made yourself completely defenseless, and highly unmaneuverable, while a bunch of people shoot at you.  There's no need for the wizards beneath the water.  The wizards on the shore would be able to pick them off easily enough.  The swimmer might as well just stand still while holding a "KILL ME!" sign.  Hell, four or five decent spellcasters would be enough.  You simply freeze the river's surface to a depth of three or four feet.  The weres wouldn't be able to move, and you could pick them off at your leisure.  No, this is the equivalent of shooting yourself FOR the enemy.

Fight smarter, not necessarily harder... But fight to win.  And bloodbank might be the only potion of David's that the werewolves might have access to since David released that one into the public domain.  The ghosting potion is virtually unknown except to the few at his masters presentation and maybe the Royal Potions Guild since they probably had to verify that his potions worked so they'd have access to the formulas.

All of David's potions are discoverable, as they've had to have been logged for legal reasons.  (He could not defend his rights to usage fees without the potion being registered as his.)  And we already know that David's potions are "out there", as there has already been mention of David being paid usage fees.

I'd also like to point out that Merlung is not the only method by which a human can breathe underwater.  There are spells to do it just fine.  The purpose of Merlung was to allow David to TALK underwater, which is not a necessity for military maneuvering if you've been properly briefed and learned a few hand signals.  Thus, the weres would be aware of this possibility, and would be on the alert for such things.

As to the ghosting potion:  To service an entire company (not to mention something like a battalion) would require gallons upon gallons of the stuff.  While it would make the troops impervious to magical hits for a short while, there are other things that would be damaging.  Imagine a were elemander.  They open up a huge pit beneath a hundred troops, twenty feet deep.  The ghost-troops WILL fall into the pit (ghosted humans cannot "fly"...)  Then the elemander dumps the dirt back in on top of them.  Oh, sure, this won't kill them... immediately... but now they have to figure out how to get OUT of the ground before the potion wears off.  And Incorporeus Potion is utterly useless for covert ops, as ghosts glow, making them more easily visible at night, when covert ops are normally carried out.

Bloodbank would, of course, be useful in keeping some people alive, assuming they have a chance to take it.  The smarter ones would take a dose before the battle started... (and probably get yelled at for doing so, because that dose now has to be replaced without having served a purpose...) but this would just lead the weres to do things to them that aren't about blood loss.  Like, oh, ripping their head off, or blasting a large hole in their chest.  It would make them harder to kill, but not impervious to death.  AND on the other side of that coin, keeping them alive might just mean that the weres would turn them, instead of killing them, thus enlarging the were army to some extent.  (No, not everyone turned would change sides, but there would be some, who realize that they aren't going to be well treated in Callamandia after the war...)

So, really, the reason I'm "underestimating" Merlung (in your opinion) is because it doesn't actually add a new capability to the army.  They've always had the ability to maneuver through water.  As I said, talking is not a requisite for military maneuver.  Thus, both sides would be ready for this kind of tactic, making it much less effective.

Eric Storm


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#581 2018-05-13 19:41:11

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

There are different types of ghost prevention device.  Some act as walls.  Others act as fields.  In truth, they are all fields, but the "wall" variety is a long, narrow field.  A ghost cannot enter a GP field, thus they also cannot cross a GP wall.  Obviously, they can move to the "other side" of the field, if they can find means to accomplish that.

Why the two different types?  It is easier to move a GP wall than a GP field.  Thus, if the intent is for the field to "travel", a set of walls is more convenient.  A GP wall can remain active while in motion.  A GP field has to be "turned off" while it's being moved.  But fields are more powerful than walls: you have to make sure there are no gaps in your walls if you want to keep ghosts out.  With a field, it's much easier to know you're secure.

As to the answer to your question, Crusader... I know you've already read WAY7-10, which answers this question quite clearly.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#582 2018-05-13 22:10:12

shadowlord
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

Eric Storm wrote:

4) [...] The aquamanders make it easy to travel against the current of the river by slowing, stopping or reversing the current where the soldiers are marching.

Do you have any idea how obvious altering the current of a river would be?  In fact, do you have any idea how powerful you'd have to be to do it?  To alter the current, you would have to change where the water - ALL OF THE WATER - is going in that river,

The visual I had when I read this was kind of a finite-length "tube" of water flowing upstream...  The platoon would march upstream, "with the flow" inside the tube.  Outside the tube, the water would continue to flow downstream, at a slightly faster rate to compensate for the volume inside the tube...  Depending on the relative volumes in- and out-side the tube, that might not be TOO noticable...  But, I agree with Eric:  this isn't a "new" cabability, and any decent tactician would be prepared for it...

Last edited by shadowlord (2018-05-13 22:12:46)

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#583 2018-05-14 04:32:19

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

An interesting notion, but let's examine what you're asking of the aquamanders:

To have any chance of being a truly useful force, you'd need at least a company: 100 or so men.  Each man will need approximately 3' x 5' of walking space, to keep from bumping into other soldiers.  So.  15 square feet of space.  Let's say you need about 8' of vertical space per soldier, to keep them from being affected by the downstream current.  So that is now 120 cubic feet of water per soldier.  Times 100, you're now talking about 12,000 cubic feet of water, or just under 90,000 gallons... to the tune of nearly 3/4 of a MILLION pounds of water.  Now, that's just the water moving upstream.  You've also got to control that same amount of water (or more) flowing downstream, to make it move faster than gravity is going to pull on it.  AND you have to do this without making it obvious on the surface that the water in the river is flowing faster than normal.

Now, this task could be spread around to several aquamanders, but you'd better hope they can act in complete synchrony, because if just one of them falters, the entire system is going to collapse and give away your position to the enemy.

Now, here's a case where it might be more beneficial to use Incorporeus.  Just give all your troops Incorporeus potion, and then they're no longer fighting the current.  But you'd better make damned sure you took enough, because if you become solid before you get into position, you're going to wreak havoc with your formation - and possibly drown your men.  And you can't exactly take more potion while still underwater...

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#584 2018-05-14 11:13:18

Crusader
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

Eric Storm wrote:

...
As to the answer to your question, Crusader... I know you've already read WAY7-10, which answers this question quite clearly.

Eric Storm

Hmmm, i missed something then.

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#585 2018-05-14 19:15:46

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

Your question was "Can David teleport through ghost prevention spells?" (emphasis added)

Since this is exactly what he did during the battle, the question has been answered.  He cannot teleport into a ghost-prevention field, but yes, he can teleport from one side of one to the other.  Because, as you point out, conjuring is not movement, it is an instantaneous process, thus any intervening obstacles are unimportant.  Only the conditions at the desired endpoint are relevant.  (However, the conditions inside a GP field are such that he could not go there.)

Eric Storm


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#586 2018-05-14 23:22:40

shadowlord
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

Eric Storm wrote:

to the tune of nearly 3/4 of a MILLION pounds of water.  Now, that's just the water moving upstream.  You've also got to control that same amount of water (or more) flowing downstream, to make it move faster than gravity is going to pull on it.

I don't claim any specialty in physics, so I could be wrong, but: I don't think you need to do anything to the water outside the tube...  Visualize an airplane wing...  The engine exerts force on the wing to push it thru the air, but no one (other than Newton's 3rd law) exerts force on the air to make sure it flows properly around the wing...  Same here...  You need elemandy to move the water inside the tube, but other than that, gravity and Newton's laws will take care of the rest...   I think...

But, I won't dispute that it's still a lot of water, for (probably) a very long distance...  I have no feel for how much elemandy power that would require, or how readily available that much power would be...

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#587 2018-05-15 01:40:01

Crusader
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

Eric Storm wrote:

Your question was "Can David teleport through ghost prevention spells?" (emphasis added)

Since this is exactly what he did during the battle, the question has been answered.  He cannot teleport into a ghost-prevention field, but yes, he can teleport from one side of one to the other.  Because, as you point out, conjuring is not movement, it is an instantaneous process, thus any intervening obstacles are unimportant.  Only the conditions at the desired endpoint are relevant.  (However, the conditions inside a GP field are such that he could not go there.)

Eric Storm

... i'm dumb.

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#588 2018-05-15 06:00:29

Timberwolf92
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

shadowlord wrote:

Eric Storm wrote:

to the tune of nearly 3/4 of a MILLION pounds of water.  Now, that's just the water moving upstream.  You've also got to control that same amount of water (or more) flowing downstream, to make it move faster than gravity is going to pull on it.

I don't claim any specialty in physics, so I could be wrong, but: I don't think you need to do anything to the water outside the tube...  Visualize an airplane wing...  The engine exerts force on the wing to push it thru the air, but no one (other than Newton's 3rd law) exerts force on the air to make sure it flows properly around the wing...  Same here...  You need elemandy to move the water inside the tube, but other than that, gravity and Newton's laws will take care of the rest.

I know enough about physics to know that if only what you just described was done the surface of the river would rise above its normal height in the general area of there the troops where thus give away that something that’s happening in that area of water; the weres may not realize what was happening but they would take measures all the same.

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#589 2018-05-15 06:24:38

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

Shadowlord:

After doing a bit of research (and not comprehending about 95% of it), it would appear that you are probably right about the velocity... but then again, now the aquamander is having to fight against a faster flow to keep the upstream-flowing tube intact, so I think that, energy-wise, that probably comes out about the same.  Another thing I noticed is that it seems as though a river's surface will actually form a dip as it goes over a hump in the river bottom.  (And this upstream-flowing tube would act pretty much like a solid hump in the riverbed...)  This makes me think that the aquamanders would also have to hold the surface of the water sitting right above their upstream-flowing tube so that it didn't form this depression.  In any case, it seems to me that, in order to make this truly invisible on the surface would be insanely tricky to pull off.  And if you don't make it completely invisible, then all you're doing is sentencing your men to death.  The weres would simply follow you along the shore, wait for you to stick your head out of the water, and blast it off.

Eric Storm


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#590 2018-05-15 09:38:03

shadowlord
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

Timberwolf92 wrote:

I know enough about physics to know that if only what you just described was done the surface of the river would rise above its normal height in the general area

Which is why I said:

shadowlord wrote:

Depending on the relative volumes in- and out-side the tube, that might not be TOO noticable...

I agree it would be a foolhardy endeavor, unless the covert force selected the "right" river...  If the local displacement around the tube could be dispersed over a great enough area, then it probably wouldn't be noticable.  The math is too hard for me to figure out, but my intuition would tell me the ratio of cross-sections (outside / inside) would have to be at least 3 or 4...  But that seems to be far over-shaddowed by the depth needed...  Most submarines don't come to periscope-depth very often, unless they have to...  I think that's about 50'-60'...  Seems like you'd need at least 70'-80'-deep river to avoid being visible...  although, visibility would be hampered if the observer isn't directly over-head...  The angle of the observer on the bank of a river would increase the effective depth of the water...  Still, I'd think you'd want your 8'-tall tube to be at least 40' below the surface...  That would give you a cross-section ratio of close to 10, or maybe quite a bit more.  That seems more than adequate to disperse the additional displacement...

Still, I don't think I'd be participating in this project without a heckuva lot of testing in friendly territory...  lol

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#591 2018-05-15 18:11:03

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

I'm not quite sure what your inclusion of a submarine's "periscope depth" was for.  Periscope depth is determined by the size of the submarine, because a submarine's "depth" is determined by its keel, not its sail.  Thus,a 60' depth (approximately) for an attack submarine means that the sail will be just below the surface of the water.  That depth has nothing to do with not letting the sub cause a visible distortion of the water surface, and everything to do with only allowing the periscope to break the surface.

Though your mention of periscopes does lead me to another issue about this plan:  Exactly how do you see where the hell you're going?  How do you know when you've gotten to the right place to stop?

And another concern:  Hydromancy.  Hydromancy allows someone to see what's happening "now" at a distance, by using water to see.  If you are actually in the water, something tells me it's going to be much easier to see you.  So you'd better hope that the enemy isn't trying to divine your movements.  Although admittedly, it is likely that both sides would employ companies of master impediveurs for the duration of the war, to simply block out the usefulness of any kind of divination entirely.  But if they didn't, or if there were a lapse, then this would definitely be an issue.

And the more I think about it... how are you supposed to safely extract your troops from the river to enter the fight?  Riverbeds are rarely nice smooth gradients that you can just walk up out of the water on...  Have you ever seen footage of the Normandy invasion, and how those soldiers had to try to run through the water to the shore?  It's extremely awkward, and makes you quite vulnerable to attack.  Not as bad as swimming, but still...

No, I wouldn't want any part of this scheme.  WAY too many problems to overcome for it to work even marginally well.

Eric Storm


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#592 2018-05-16 04:53:42

fathertyme
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

OK, quick question.

When the king requested David to get to the palace As quickly as possible (and by any means), why didn't he try to use his new found conjuring abilities?

It seems like that would have worked the best (and been a great test of his abilities for himself) not to mention possibly making him an invaluable asset (or more so?) to the kingdom.

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#593 2018-05-16 05:32:06

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

Okay, let's evaluate:  You've teleported yourself TWICE.  The farthest you've achieved so far is about 200 feet.

Are you then, at a time of importance, but not life-threatening danger, going to attempt to teleport yourself nearly 26,000 times as far?  Gorumshead is about 981 miles from Senesty.  This would be foolhardy and irresponsible behavior.  Keep in mind that failure to succeed in a teleportation attempt will cause serious injury... would probably kill a normal person.

Not to mention that I have never established how great a distance one can teleport.  It is highly unlikely, given the difficulty of doing the task at all, that it is possible to teleport around the world.  Hell, David cannot even conjure other objects around the world.  He had some difficulty conjuring an object from Cormatsen to Gorumshead during his conjuring mastery exam.  Even accounting for added proficiency due to practice, it is highly unlikely that he would be able to teleport himself any great distance, and to experiment with it while in service to the king would be a highly unwise act.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#594 2018-05-16 16:50:37

StoryJunkie
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

and even when conjuring things at a distance it was still "line of sight" by mirror (if I remember right) I'm thinking (based on other stories...which obviously have nothing to do with this one, but still) you would either need to have someplace well known and clear to "jump" otherwise how would you know for a fact that you would not be trying to conjure yourself into a wall or someone already in that spot

and yes, as I said this is information gleaned from other stories that have people that can teleport and as such really have no basis of expectation in this universe, but it does give you a very good basis on some of the possible dangers involved...of course this is Erics world, and what he says goes lol

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#595 2018-05-16 18:25:53

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

Actually, that information could easily be extrapolated from what has been said about conjuring in the last few books.  In order to conjure an object, you have to find an area of "availability" to conjure it into.  The further away you are, the harder this is to do "directly", thus the use of mirrors to conjure truly distant objects.

Of course, in the situation postulated here, David would have had a visual connection, given that he was contacted either by mirror or by "secure communications device", both of which have visual displays... but the distance itself is still an issue, and there's no way David would have risked such an experiment at a time like that.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#596 2018-05-18 09:48:49

Crusader
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

On top of all that I doubt the king or his advisors would have expected him to even try, if they even know he can teleport.

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#597 2018-05-18 18:52:50

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

This is true, but I think the gist of the suggestion was that David knew he could teleport, and since the king had said fastest way possible, this would have been it.

Except that it wouldn't.  3dsmile

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#598 2018-05-18 19:19:41

Barbarian3165
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

If the men marching under water were in single file, I think it would be manageable.  One to three elemanders near or at the front of the line to take care of the initial force of the flow of the water with a few more elemanders spread out through the men to maintain the column of water they are in should be enough.  Overall displacement of water in a 100 foot wide river would be 3 to 5 inches depending on how you are measuring the cross section.  An increase in the speed of the water running around a single file column of men might not be that much either.  Anyway, I doubt they would march up the river 5 or 10 men abreast.  The only time I can see to bunch up in this situation is when you are preparing for an attack or defense.

If you add in David's ability to increase the surface tension of the water so it can act as a solid and you could create an effective invisible bridge across any body of water.  You might need some additional aquamanders to stop the flow of say a 1 inch deep section of water at the surface across the river though and for however wide you wanted the bridge to be.  Maybe teach some more powerful aquamanders David's technique and you might be able to move a larger force across the river even quicker...  Werewolves stunned as they watch Wizards walking on water 3dwink

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#599 2018-05-18 19:23:41

Barbarian3165
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

So, why didn't David go through Haven?  Except for teleporting it is probably the fastest way to travel for him.  The only reason not to go through Haven that I can think of is if he wants to bring Jaila along, and I'm not sure it would be necessary to bring Jaila.

Last edited by Barbarian3165 (2018-05-18 19:24:20)

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#600 2018-05-19 01:39:16

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 7, The

Please keep in mind that the Callamandian Army and the Vrudenan Army are not what we would consider "modern" armies.  They do not have radio communication.  They do not have artillery fire, as such.  These armies are much more in the vein of colonial America than Gulf War America.

Up until the mid-1800's, when the style of warfare changed radically due to the rifle, people fought and marched in close quarters formation.  Why did they do this?  Protection and communication.

In the situation we're discussing, you have 100 men (at least), traveling in a murky, probably dark environment.  If these troops are marching single-file, it takes only one person getting confused to destroy your formation... or possibly to lose half of it going up the wrong tributary.  Each person would have only one person they could use as a "guide" to keep them going in the right direction: the person in front of them.  In formation, they would have either two or three (the person directly in front of them, plus the people to either side.  Those on the edges would have only two.  Those in the middle would have three.)  It is significantly harder to lose sight of three people than it is to lose sight of one.  Those at the front and sides of the formation would be more experienced troops.

Yes, the river WOULD be murky.  If you're traveling down a river clear enough for you to see the people two or three positions ahead of you, it's also clear enough for the enemy to see you from the riverbank.  Why would the environment be dark?  Because you're probably traveling during darkness and twilight, rather than daytime, to avoid being seen.  Most likely it would be twilight, as traveling in complete darkness would be next to impossible.

And I don't know if I've mentioned this already or not (this conversation is beginning to twist and turn), but traveling using Incorporeus wouldn't be a good idea, either, as your troops would glow, thus giving away their position in the water... or at least giving warning that they were emerging from the water well before they broke the surface.  And since someone would be watching the water (because attacks like this have been possible for centuries), they would see you coming, and be ready to counter your presence.

On to your next suggestion, why would they build a bridge out of solidified water - a technique that requires constant maintenance - when they could just build an earthen or ice bridge, which will remain stable with little assistance?  Destroying such a bridge is a rapid task, so if you were attempting to keep the enemy off your bridge, it would be easy enough to do.  Doing this using solidified water is just wasting energy.

And finally, traveling in Haven is NOT faster than traveling in a 500mph airplane.  (And before you bring up things like TSA checkpoints, consider that David can become invisible.  He could simply bypass the checkpoint if he felt it was taking too long.)

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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