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#26 2007-02-13 21:39:36

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

You know, I just went over to EWP and read your little rant and flame-job about CRJ.

You forget a few very important points concerning people.
1. RON WAS A TEENAGER.  He was simply not capable of dealing with what his sister had become.  Generally speaking, even adults who can't deal with things tend to shut them out of their consciousness.  It's not criminal OR cold-hearted, it's a survival instinct.

2. Dawn's neurosis, as I said, was not a "poison" installed by Ron.  He did not destabilize her; she was unstable to begin with.

3. You're right.  He COULD HAVE fought tooth and nail to keep her in the house... to the detriment of everyone else there, and at the expense of all the other things he had to do at the time.  You say that YOU would have fought like anything to keep your sister around, or to fix her problems.  First off, you're name probably isn't Ron Chaffey, and I'm sure you don't have to worry about being wiped out by Russian psionics on a daily basis.  Not everyone reacts the same way to things.  I do not write "pure" characters.  They are completely unrealistic.  You claimed that my portrayal of Ron's behavior toward "family" is unrealistic, but that just proves you need an education.  I personally haven't spoken to any member of my own family in over three years.  Not everyone prizes biological family above all else.  Clearly, Ron has other priorities, like his EMOTIONAL family: Those who actually support him and wish to be with him.

4. Yes, he let her go the final time without protection.  Who was he supposed to send with her?  He was about to fight an all-out battle with the Russians, in which he was rather heavily outnumbered.  Every single psionic was needed for the war effort; he could not risk sending someone with her.  Also, you apparently never considered the notion that Ron thought that her lack of protection might have been something to convince her to stay, or to come back quickly.  Teenagers are prone to using superlatives ("I don't ever want to see you again"), and they are also prone to ignoring them when it suits their needs.

5. I never, not once, attempted to craft Ron as a "noble" individual.  The fact that you think so means that you were imposing your own emotions on my character, and the fact that you were disappointed with that imposition is not my fault.  I wrote a character who simply did the best he could with what he had.  He was prone to anger, jealousy, rage, indifference, and many other character flaws.  He was, in short, a PERSON, not an ideal.  He spent about 3/4 of the book FUCKING UP.  Why did you expect him to get all of his relationships right?

6. In Ron's mind, he was responsible for Kumiko's death.  He didn't just "lose" her, he KILLED her.  Further, he had done more than kill her physical body: he destroyed her eternal soul.  You don't get over that kind of trauma with any ease, especially when you're 16 or 17. (I forget his exact age at the time.)  Was it a selfish act?  Sure... as was your insistence that he live up to your standards rather than his own.

7. You bitch about Ron's apparent lack of family loyalty... but you don't seem to have any trouble ignoring Dawn's lack of the same.  Ah, but I forget, you blame Ron for her emotional instability, even though that was not his doing, nor his fault.  No, he could not have "calmed her and gave her a sense of security" without altering her personality.  It was in her psychological makeup to react this way to what happened.  The only way to fix it would be to change how she reacted, which would mean changing who she was.  Ron was fiercely loyal TO THOSE WHO WERE LOYAL TO HIM.  He didn't protect Nancy, either, when she wanted to leave, but I don't hear you screaming about that.  You're upset with someone who was constantly facing personal danger, and who in later portions of the story was literally bearing the weight of the world on his shoulders.  AS A TEENAGER.  I think perhaps you need to wake up and realize your expectations of him were completely unrealistic.

8.  You castigate Ron for giving in to his urges with his sister, leading to her pregnancy.  This is perhaps one of the pieces in the earlier part of the story I'm actually proud of, because it rings true to the behavior of people that age.  They don't sit back and consider, "Well, gee, if I do "A", then "B" will happen, followed by "C", "D", and "E"."  No, they generally don't bother to think about anything more than, "Will this get me into immediate trouble?"  Again, you are attempting to fit Ron into a mold I was never trying to cast for him.  Ron is not a saint, and he is not a noble warrior.  He's a kid, trying to make sense of his world, and when he finally does understand it, he's a little busy trying to SURVIVE.

In short, you're pissed off because my character acted like a real person rather than a flat, cardboard "knight in shining armor" to everyone he met.  Thank you for the compliment; you've proven that I achieved my goal, at least in the end.

You can take your grade of "C" and shove it far enough up your ass that your eyes are floating on it.  I really don't give a damn.

Net Wolf


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#27 2007-02-14 20:14:13

Stalyon
Tipsy
Registered: 2007-01-16
Posts: 3
Website

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

Hey Wolf.  3dsmile

Nice post.  Decent explanations of your points of view.  Some of which I agreed with, others I didn't.  That's to be expected.  I'll keep this post short.  I'll just respond to each point very briefly.

1.-  Good point.  That explains a bit certainly.
2.-  I'm on the fence on this one.  I don't think Ron was the one that 'poisoned' her per se, but he definitely didn't help.  The teenager point is a reasonable explanation there though...
3.-  I'll easily admit that my own attitude towards my own biological family strongly influences me here.  My biological family is VERY important to me.  He had proven that he could make subtle changes without completely altering the person.  My point was that he could've just added a few things like that early on to prevent such problems.  Again, the inexperianced teenager thing could serve to explain that as well.
4.-  Maybe.  Even so, He could have given her some guns and ammo or something.  I was rather suprised that she might not have been raped before the scene in 'Rivalry'.  After the war had been won, he might've sent someone to keep tabs on her, just in case.  Actually, I suppose that is something you could reveal (if you wanted) that WAS done just unkown to Dawn or Nathan.  Even if Ron had given up on Dawn, I'm sure his son would merit such attention.
5.-  I agree he screwed up a lot.  However the 'Knight' in his visions might've thrown me if you think about it.  It was what he was trying to live up to, right?  Even if he didn't quite get it right.
6.-  Oh, I agree Ron should've been crushed over that.  That one didn't bother me so much, although I really didn't understand his giving up his son with her.  Again, maybe my own foibles are at play there.
7.-  Nancy wasn't really family.  Again, I make the distinction of blood there.  Blood is thicker than water as they say...  at least for me.  3dwink
8.-  Actually, I didn't castigate Ron for taking his sister.  That didn't bother me.  If it did, I wouldn't read very many online stories, given the prevalence of incest on the web.  That was no big deal overall.  I only felt that he 'owed' Dawn more than she got from him.  Certainly much more than Nancy.

As to the 'C', that is only my opinion from how I came out at the end of the story.  It doesn't mean a damn thing in terms of your writing ability.  For that you get an A+.  Except for the thing with Dawn I really like CAMP very much.  As to any future plans with Dawn, I await your script (at your leisure of course.. 3dsmile, with bated breath.  Please don't take my critisims personally.  They aren't from my end.  My opinions can be illustrative sometimes to get my point across, but they aren't personal.  As I said, your a talented writer, and provoking an emotional response is (in my book) a success.  Well done.

Stalyon

(posted from the Item Information Page)

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#28 2007-02-14 21:19:47

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

'nuff said.

I will point out, however, that all criticism is personal to an author, unless they just don't give a damn about the months (and in this case years) it took them to create something.  That is why it is very important to be careful when critiquing something:  You're already stepping on toes.... much better if you tiptoe rather than stomp.  Hence the reason for the Critiquing Guide found on the main menu of the site.

Net Wolf


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#29 2007-02-16 06:07:21

dv8n
Wasted
From: East Texas
Registered: 2006-12-08
Posts: 118

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

You know Net...

...you always say you hate CAMP...not deep enough characters...but you just pointed out some very deep things about those very same characters...or were there some other characters you meant that you were unhappy with....?

Last edited by dv8n (2007-02-16 06:11:32)


:lol:

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#30 2007-02-16 07:00:50

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

I was unhappy with the part of the book he liked.  The beginning of the book is full of cardboard cutouts.  They developed depth only as I got some writing experience.

Net Wolf


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#31 2007-02-16 08:48:22

dv8n
Wasted
From: East Texas
Registered: 2006-12-08
Posts: 118

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

oh...well to be honest I still think what I said to you before....


Every story you start...will begin with people having to get to know those characters...in essence 2D cardboard cutouts...and during the story they get fleshed out into real people...if you hit the reader with the full character at once it would overload the reader and make the story go slower...

at least....that's MY opinion....  3dbig_smile     ...so anyway like I was saying I don't see anything wrong with how you handled it...I Mean...yeah you DID kill miko   3dsad   but nobody's perfect  3dbig_smile

NOW if you had the same 2D characters at the end of the story...everybody would agree with you....but you didn't...and they DON"T   


3dbig_smile


:lol:

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#32 2007-03-03 00:00:26

CSquared
Wasted
Registered: 2006-12-04
Posts: 119

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

You know, I've just been reading through CAMP again, and I came across one of the few things I don't like about it.

It's the way you treated the UK.  While a large proportion of people respect the Queen, I think the majority don't - at least not to the extent of bowing in her presence.  Certainly not if she's the King's Consort, not the ruling Queen.  And a psionic certainly wouldn't - someone with more power in their little finger than in the entirety of the antiquated scriptures that keep the Royal family in business?  I don't think so.

That said, I enjoyed it this time through almost as much as I did the first time. XD

CSquared

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#33 2007-03-03 04:34:19

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

So, you're upset because I made you guys too polite?

Sheesh, I just can't win.

3dsmile

Net Wolf


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#34 2007-03-04 16:47:10

CSquared
Wasted
Registered: 2006-12-04
Posts: 119

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

Heh.  Oh no, we're fairly polite... or at least, we used to be.  The only thing I really have a problem with is the deference to the Royal Family.  I, for one, would gladly spit in the Queen's face if it wouldn't get me thrown in prison.  I don't want them there, and I wish they were gone.

CSquared

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#35 2007-03-04 21:03:44

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

Well, then clearly your objection is colored by your personal opinion of the monarchy.  I'm sure there are other Brits who feel differently.  If everyone felt as strongly as you do, then the monarchy would have been done away with by now.  So my story-Brit simply has a greater reverence for the monarchy than you do.

Net Wolf


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#36 2007-03-09 13:14:08

LeoSolaris
Tipsy
From: Ohio
Registered: 2007-03-09
Posts: 3
Website

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

I really hate breaking into a new forum in a random place where conversations are already occurring, but I have a minor issue...   I found Camp, Ron's journey on asstr and became hooked...   I have signed up here, but I have not yet found how to access the actual writings! [located, please see the end]

My apologies for the complete noobie post, but I figured this would be the fastest way to obtain what I desire.

I am a big fan of your writing, Net Wolf. Once I get comfortable with the group, I may offer up some of my own material.

Thank ya for the fantastic stories!

Leo S.

Now I feel like an idiot...    I found how to download them, which I wasn't looking for to start with, after a few more minutes of rifling through the main website. Please ignore the pleas of the blind man!

Last edited by LeoSolaris (2007-03-09 13:30:12)


“Writing a book is an adventure. To begin with, it is a toy and an amusement; then it becomes a mistress, and then it becomes a master, and then a tyrant. The last phase is that just as you are about to be reconciled to your servitude, you kill the monster, and fling him out to the public.”
Winston Churchill

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#37 2007-03-09 19:34:29

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

...

I didn't think the site was in any way difficult to navigate....

(Says the truly legally-blind man... 3dtongue )

Net Wolf


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#38 2007-03-18 20:33:28

druidman227
Tipsy
From: New Jersey
Registered: 2007-02-01
Posts: 2

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

the site is a little confusing at first, but after about 5 minutes of messing around, I had no problems with it.

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#39 2007-03-18 20:48:51

CSquared
Wasted
Registered: 2006-12-04
Posts: 119

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

druidman227 wrote:

the site is a little confusing at first, but after about 5 minutes of messing around, I had no problems with it.

Second.  Doesn't take more than a couple of minutes to work it out, then there's no problem.

CSquared

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#40 2007-03-18 22:40:57

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

You guys tell me it's "a little confusing", but you don't tell me *how* it's confusing.

I can't fix what I don't know is broken...

Net Wolf


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#41 2007-03-19 02:10:32

CSquared
Wasted
Registered: 2006-12-04
Posts: 119

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

The thing is, I'm not so sure what confused me.  I think it was the story pages themselves - it took me a moment to work out how to actually read the story and not just the description.  But other than that, I had no problems.

CSquared

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#42 2007-03-22 19:14:02

LeoSolaris
Tipsy
From: Ohio
Registered: 2007-03-09
Posts: 3
Website

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

I simply wasn't expecting to download the stories...

Different format and style, thats all!   ~laughs~    I was expecting a link to them to read from the already opened web browser rather than a download link. Maybe a super huge download button for us blind guys!

Leo


“Writing a book is an adventure. To begin with, it is a toy and an amusement; then it becomes a mistress, and then it becomes a master, and then a tyrant. The last phase is that just as you are about to be reconciled to your servitude, you kill the monster, and fling him out to the public.”
Winston Churchill

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#43 2007-03-23 03:14:27

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

Um... if you want to read them online, you can use the arrow buttons, or the drop-down list on every single story page, on the left-hand side.  Clearly I misjudged people's ability to interpret what I thought were basic symbols.  I will have to re-evaluate, and perhaps put a title on those navigation controls.

Sorry for the inconvenience.
Net Wolf, your legally-blind webmaster...


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#44 2007-04-03 11:44:58

dv8n
Wasted
From: East Texas
Registered: 2006-12-08
Posts: 118

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

well that drop down list gave me trouble at first I wasn't expecting it... I kinda ran across it by accident  3dbig_smile

But I noticed I kept clicking the link that looked like it took you to the story and it kept taking me to the story description it wasn't until I started getting angry that I noticed the little box to the side and felt stupid for not seeing it there in plain sight  3dbig_smile

That was my only problem and now that the "user error" factor is removed it works great  3dtongue

...but my browser does load the site really slow but I think that has to do with my internet connection...but it only happens here so I figure it's to much for my poor phone line. hehehee

Last edited by dv8n (2007-04-03 11:48:25)


:lol:

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#45 2007-04-03 17:42:47

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

No, it's the site.  It is either GoDaddy, or my code.  Since my earlier code didn't slow things down before, I doubt that this code is actually slowing things down now.  I think GoDaddy is just overloading their servers, and delivering heavy-duty PHP/MySQL is becoming a crawl.  Unfortunately, I don't have a fix for it, unless someone wants to hard-code the site for me...  I ain't doin' it.  3dtongue

Net Wolf


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#46 2007-07-25 12:51:33

Airreanna
Tipsy
Registered: 2007-07-24
Posts: 1

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

the compressed (zipped) folder is invalid or corrupted**

this is the message i get when i try to Download "Ron's Journey"
is there something wrong with my comp. ?
You are a true talent ! .. i have found enjoyment in reading your Work, I would Recommend this story to others !
your admirer,
                 Airreanna

(posted from Chapter 3)

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#47 2007-07-25 17:25:12

Eric Storm
Pub Owner
From: New Port Richey, FL
Registered: 2006-09-12
Posts: 5745
Website

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

The first part of this message should have been posted to "Website Issues."  I will answer in the email you sent me.

Thanks for the feedback,
Net Wolf


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#48 2007-07-27 15:06:22

steez18
Tipsy
Registered: 2007-07-27
Posts: 2

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

Hi i was wondering where i could download this story i have looked everywhere

(posted from the Item Information Page)

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#49 2007-07-27 15:12:17

steez18
Tipsy
Registered: 2007-07-27
Posts: 2

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

NVM I figured out how to download it

(posted from the Item Information Page)

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#50 2007-09-12 20:47:02

devildog69
Tipsy
Registered: 2007-09-12
Posts: 1

Re: CAMP: Ron's Journey

where do i download the story ron journey

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