The Pub Discussion Board

Sorry to have to redact your message, neolyn, but this is too large a plot point to reveal in open forum, and not everyone can read that chapter yet.

Oh, and there was never a chance of me answering your question.



Eric Storm

Do you want our thoughts here in the forum or as PM's?

Barbarian:

Whichever you'd prefer.

Private:

Eric Storm wrote:

I am looking for ideas for tricks or traps that the Vrudenans will use against the humans.

private wrote:

Phallus-shaped wands for the Were's?
Borrowing the King's journals from the 2nd Were war
would help for ideas I bet....

Um...  how do these ideas fulfill the request I presented (quoted above)?

Eric Storm

Idea duly noted.  One thing I will say about that, though:  The VC were fighting on their own turf.  It's much easier to build things like tunnels and such when you're not having to move around.  The Vrudenans are the ones invading, making it harder for something like a tunnel system to be put in place.  Not saying I can't use it, just saying it has its... "issues".

Eric Storm

Thank you for the ideas.

I will point out the issue with your first idea:  Morphing takes time to perform.  So, when the humans see all the stuff around them changing shape, they're going to have time to blast the hell out of it.

You mention morphing the scout units.  Into WHAT?  What would be more useful than looking like a wolf?

Eric Storm

Aquamandy+Electromandy=fun
If the weres can get saturate an area where humans are staging with water, either through a flooded river, rain storm, whatever, then electrify the water, that will either kill, or incapacitate those in the water. The weres could protect themselves by having their own aquamanders ensure there is no water in the land they are on.

Thinking a bit further on what I wrote I realized that same technique for increasing the deadly potency of poisons could be used in artillery combat as well with inhaled poisons. Who cares if the rounds don't impact the target area directly because of deflection or destruction via shields? It just has to land near the enemy. Using Aeromandy, the Were army can direct the expelled poisons from the magical canisters. This isn't a war where both sides have the same conventions of honor, after all.

You can make it water-soluble so that the poison doesn't run amok. One caster concentrates the air in the area, while another increases the humidity in the air to scrub it out. Or make it a poison/toxin/bacterium that relies on a host body or specific environmental conditions to survive or it dies after an hour of exposure to the elements.

As to morphing, I was thinking about a 'murder of crows' or is it a 'murder of ravens'  Anyway, the were's could wipe out an important village or town and then some or all of them could morph into crows and act like the carrion feeders crows can be and feast on the dead bodies.  The calamandian army would come back in to the town or village to reestablish order and in the process try to shew off the crows and bury the dead.  The were's could then either morph into the were attack force or else fly off to bring back a bigger force.

A 'murder of crows' could also be used for opportunistic raids or assaults behind enemy lines.  Of course, the season may play a big part into the success of a 'murder of crows'.  I'm not sure how migratory they are, but I doubt they winter up in Canada/Vrudena and would probably look out of place in late fall through early spring up there.

As for elemandy, I was thinking liquifaction through blending.  Hydromancy to over saturate the ground (over time) under a village, town, city or other place and then terramandy to vibrate the ground enough to cause everything to get swallowed up.  The town just disappears because it's all been burried in a matter of seconds.  No fire damage or other obvious signs of attack and might leave Calamandians scratching their heads as to where the town went to.  Do this attack late at night when most people are asleep and you easily kill the inhabitants by burying them alive.  Pair it with the 'murder of crows idea' to scout out what the Calamandia army does when they investigate.

Of course, you don't want to use a 'murder of crows' too often.  So use an infestation of mice and rats or other vermin every once in a while.  Heck a plague of annoying insects invading a base then after a few sleepless nights, they morph into werewolves and attack.

Terramandy could possibly used to find potential sink holes and open them up before they normally would.  Morph some were's into moles or other tunneling rodents and have them dig tunnels into a base or other area for morphed weres to invade, bypassing perimeter security.

Over hydrate some trees in an area then either freeze them or boil them rapidly.  Both could shatter the trunks, boiling might actually do it explosively especially if any pitch or natural resin caught on fire in the process.  Falling trees on your forces could also be a bitch.  The werewolf force then moves in for cleanup.

I'll think about it some more and post it if I come up with anything.

Thinking about how easily a ticked off David dispatched 100+ Vrudenans after Joe died got me wondering if there were any Vrudenan demighosts. Clearly, a demighost has abilities regular solidiers do not (and David is good at so many things, he is especially dangerous/effective). So, if there were Vrudenan demighosts, what sort of mischief could they cause behind enemy lines?

considering how quickly Lise got morphed into that lizard creature that would fit in David's pocket, by a second or third year vampire, I would of figured a raven, crow or similar sized rodent would be doable and fairly quickly too. However, I will accept your limitations.  I just figured a "Murder of Crows" would be an interesting addition to the story.  Besides, I didn't take David's unwillingness to morph Charlie into a rat as a problem with size or speed of transformation, but a problem with David's confidence and skill/ability and I don't remember any specific explanation like you mention above.

Oh, and please forgive me for mixing up the terms Hydromancy and Hydromandy. 

Last edited by Barbarian3165 (2018-06-27 07:04:51)

Ken is correct in a portion of his assertion:  Lise's assailant wasn't worried about hurting anyone.  More to the point, though, Lise's assailant was also Sam's assailant, and the complexity of that spell proves that, despite their actual schooling level, the assailant was a high-level spellcaster, at least with things they'd practiced rigorously.

As to the morphing limitation:  You'll note that, when asked what David DID feel comfortable morphing Prof. Phillips into, his response was anything that roughly approximated Prof. Phillips current size.  This strongly implies that it is easier to morph something into something that is approximately the same size, than it is to morph it into something that is vastly different.

Funny... I thought someone would have mentioned Tattered Tom the Klepto Kat... but just so someone doesn't, I'll point out that the cat was probably a larger cat (my own cat weighs 17lbs...), and The Man Behind The Cat (I can't remember what I called him now... something like Arthur Johnson or somesuch...) was probably very, very good at morphing.

As to ChiefRock's assertion that there are humans living in Vrudena:  What, pray tell, do you base that on?  I have never, ever, not once made that assertion.

On the notion of an opponent demighost:  This would be massively unwise for plot reasons.  Let me lay out the scenario for you:  The Vrudenan demighost works behind the lines.  Because what they are doing seems impossible, the situations are strongly investigated.  Sooner or later, David realizes what's going on.  He will recognize "his" tactics being used: things that only demighosts can do.  At that point, the story devolves into David hunting down the demighost, rather than having anything to do with the war.  Further, once both sides realize that the other side has a demighost, NEITHER of them will be able to help the war effort, because ghost prevention devices will become squad-level equipment, and neither of them would be able to get anywhere near another soldier.

And the demighost issue ends either with one of them rendering the other unconscious long enough for them to be captured and placed into a proper containment field that can hold a demighost (very difficult to do, in the case of David...), or it ends when the more ethical of the two refuses to continue destroying the world around them to get to the other one.

As this sort of thing isn't the kind of story I want to tell for book 8, I think I'm going to avoid it like the plague.

Now, if Ken would only solidify his comments on magic devices into a specific concept and present it, we'd be getting somewhere...


Eric Storm

You have a potion that keeps your body full of blood, why couldn't David create a potion that keeps your blood both oxygenated and neutralizes waste gasses making it so that you wouldn't need to breath?  You could then bury a force underground for the duration of the potion and have them pop up when needed.  Might be freaky to the guy being buried alive and have possible psychological consequences but it could be highly effective.  But that would be on the Calamandian side of things and we are talking about tactics for the were nation.

Okay, third re-write of this message before posting...

Barbarian:

The number of times you manage to pull major assumptions about the Dugerran universe straight out of your ass is rather astonishing.

You have suddenly granted elemanders the power of divination as part of elemandy.  What have I ever written that said that this was even likely?  Elemandy is not a divinatory (that is, an information-collecting) process, it is a manipulation process.  To perform elemandy, you actively make a connection with the element you wish to manipulate, you then perform that manipulation, and then you break contact.  If you do not break contact, the amount of concentration required for elemandy is going to mentally exhaust you within an hour.

And even if you kept that connection open, I have said nothing about that allowing you to make note of vibrations... A quick look around the internet suggests that modern techno equipment cannot even detect a walking human from a mere 30 feet away.  You want a human brain to pick out that miniscule signal from 300 feet or more?  And we won't even go into the ludicrousness of detecting a heartbeat without having your ear to the person's chest...  These are wizards, not gods.  You have once again fallen prey to the fallacy that wizards are all-powerful.  Please try to keep in mind that the main character of our story is far more powerful than most wizards: he's a demighost, he's been training for seven years, and he applies himself like crazy.  Most wizards are satisfied with whatever it takes to get by.  They may be particularly good at one thing or another, but even that will not make them unbeatable at it.

As to detecting voids in the ground... while this would be technically possible, it's not feasible.  You're talking about actively searching every piece of ground before you walk over it.  You'd be telegraphing your position to any nearby wizard, who would then come and kill you to prevent you from doing exactly what you're trying to do.  Your magic use would be detectable from a much greater distance than the range you would have on your "void finding magic".  (Why?  Just like with radar, the energy which returns a "below threshold" signal is just noise to you, but that noise is a beacon to those looking for you.)  The magic used to fill in the holes would be negligible compared to the magic used to find the holes in the first place.  And the process would be slow.  It would actually be far faster for the advancing infantry to simply fire a volley of energy balls at the ground ahead of them, to look for traps before they get there.  Their presence is already obvious (you don't hide hundreds of people easily), so there's no need for them to be stealthy.

Hexes versus Curses:

Barbarian3165 wrote:

Seems to me the term 'Hex and curse' are used loosely to represent most if not all negative or unwanted magical effects.  If I had to guess, the difference between a spell and a charm would probably be how quickly they can be cast.  To my thinking, charms are quick to cast and good for attack and defense while spells take longer to cast and may leave you open to attacks or allow for defensive actions.

Well... why not ask the source?

Prof. Charles Phillips, The Woodward Academy, Year 1, Chapter 4: September, wrote:

"Now, for those who are not aware, charms and hexes are essentially the same.  The only difference between them is the intended outcome on the one being spelled.  If your intention is to benefit the person, then it is a charm.  If your intention is harm, a hex.  There is a similar difference between enchantments and curses, but then, that's not our subject.

David Stroud, The Woodward Academy, Year 2, Chapter 12: May, wrote:

"A charm is always connected to the wizard who performed it.  While the energy involved is miniscule, if you were to charm a few thousand objects in a permanent way, you would eventually grow magically exhausted.  Enchantments do not have this problem, as you are imbuing the object with nature's magical energy, instead of your own."

There is the difference, laid out some five and six books ago.  Charms and hexes are powered by the wizard casting them.  Enchantments and curses are powered by nature itself.  This has nothing to do with the power of the spell itself, only the source of its power.  There are weak enchantments.  There are powerful charms.  Another difference is that charms have a built-in time limit.  Unless you explicitly craft a charm to be permanent, it will eventually wear off on its own.  Enchantments, on the other hand, are just the opposite: unless you design them to end, they will be permanent.

You would never attempt to use an enchantment/curse during combat.  It simply takes far too long to cast one, making it unsuitable for the quick pace of battle.  ALL combat magic is based on charms and hexes.

And a "spell" is one of the four kinds of magic mentioned above.  There is no thing called a spell that is discrete from charms, hexes, enchantments, and curses.

Concerning Lydia:

You make the assumption that, because Lydia (who the hell is "Linda"???) is only a second-year student when she morphs Lise, that the spell cannot possibly be advanced.  This assumption completely ignores the fact that, as a first-year student, Lydia performed the Zayinga hex on Sam, and that had to be an advanced hex, simply due to the nature and extent of its effects.  Lydia is clearly skilled beyond her school level in at least some aspects of spellcasting, which nullifies your argument concerning the nature of the morph spell.

Morphing Speed:

You state that morphing has seemed to occur "reasonably quickly".  Define this term.  I have never, to my knowledge, given an actual timeframe for morphing.  I would certainly concede the notion that it does not take minutes.  I would, however, assert that any complex morph does take several seconds, and the more complicated the morph, the longer it takes.  Morphs are not even close to instantaneous, unless you're doing something very simple, like changing someone's eye color.

Having said that, your estimate of casualties in your scenario is far too low.  Let's assume that they have chosen to become crows, just for the sake of argument.  I would assert that the transition from crow back to werewolf would take at least 15 seconds.  The transit from crow back to wolf would take... 5-8 seconds, say.  So, let's go with the upper figure, since their werewolf form is more useful for battle.  So, 15 seconds of time from the point they start to transform, until they are finished.  During this time, they are almost completely helpless.  Oh, they would perhaps be able to duck, or crouch, but doing much more than that is going to be quite challenging, due to the fact that their body shape is in flux, and so their brain isn't going to be able to make their limbs do what it wants them to with any precision.

So, 15 seconds.  During the last 12-13 seconds of which, they will be... dead.

The human reaction time is about 1 second, if you include processing of information.  That is, it's about .1 seconds just to "see" something.  The other .9 seconds is to figure out what you're seeing.  These are not technos: they aren't going to be staring in stunned consternation about the crows changing shape in front of them.  They are going to see it, recognize it for what it is, and act on it just as fast as an American soldier seeing a grenade tossed into his fox hole.  They are going to recognize this as a threat.

The next one second period will be each of these wizard soldiers selecting a spell, selecting a target, and firing.  Since the morphing weres aren't going to be able to do a whole lot to get out of the way, they're going to get hit.  And then they're going to die.

And the soldiers aren't going to stand there and congratulate themselves at that point.  They're going to find another target, and fire on that one.

So, let's say it takes another second to acquire a new target.  So we have a three-second process for the first round, and a two-second process thereafter (since they will not need to "react" again.).  Over the course of fifteen seconds, they can do that seven times.  Thus, the number of Vrudenan casualties will be approximately (Number of humans * 6).  I'm knocking off 1 from the 7 to account for things like double-targeted weres and simple misses, plus the few people who will actually be stunned into inaction for a brief period.

So if they want to make this work, the Vrudenans had better show up with about ten times as many people as they expect humans, or they're going to get their asses slaughtered.

And I'm thinking that the humans are probably going to find a thousand crows sitting around to be... somewhat odd.

Now, your idea of them slipping inside a camp and morphing out of view shows a bit more promise... except that any permanent installation (temporary camps would probably not have "buildings", only small huts...) would most likely use morph-exposure magic on the perimeter.  We know such magic exists, as David used it to out Tattered Tom.

Breathing underground potion:

All I can say is, I hope like hell you timed out your potion correctly... and that you have a fairly good measure on when they're going to need to emerge from the ground...  As well as some way to actually tell them when they're supposed to come out.  Otherwise...

Well, at least they're already buried for you...

Eric Storm