The Pub Discussion Board

This all could get really nasty.

Now that Dailey is gone, those who worked for Dailey may be kind of up in the air? What should they do? David just killed their ATM. Should they continue helping David get stronger, which is what Dailey claimed he wanted? Or, now that Dailey is dead, will they do as they want?

- Maybe there's a reason a Demighost has never been admitted to Woodward before? What if the Dean secretly hates Demighosts, or the undead altogether? David has another year at Woodward, the Dean, if she was only putting up with David for Dailey, could now make that last year very difficult, if not, impossible.

- What if the only reason some of his professors put up with him was because of Dailey and now that the money has stopped, all of a sudden, one or more of the few professors that David still has a Student/Teacher relationship with suddenly turn on him? They don't even need to turn on him, just stop being especially supportive of David (as MOST of the professors at Woodward have been over the years.)

- The Dean, the Teachers, David's friends, none of them have any reason to come forward and admit that they were working for Dailey. There's no gain in it for them. If they have personal malice towards David, towards Demighost, or the undead, then they might get nasty otherwise... Why would they turn on David now? He's one of the most powerful wizards in Dugerra, and he has a lot of friends, including the king... Or does he? Why would anyone choose to make an enemy of David if they didn't have to? If there was nothing to gain from it?

- We've all spent so much time talking about the dean and the professors, what about David's other lives? What about his job with the Rimohrs? Was that only because of Dailey? Will David suddenly find himself out of a job? Hated by the very officers he's been working with? What about the king? Did he make David a Paladin, give him all that recognition, because of Dailey, or because David earned it?

- Then there are David's Friends. We know Lydia was working for Dailey, will other friends suddenly up and abandon David because they're no longer getting paid to be there?

- Now that Levi Dailey is dead, will his family or some member of his family, pick up where Levi left off? How much do they know of Levi's "Operation"? I'm not talking about his wife. What about his parents? His siblings? They're a lot more likely to continue this fight than his wife, who simply married into it.

While killing Levi Dailey seemed like it would make David's life, David's friends, safer, and it may, it may not make his life any calmer.

Last edited by Jefferson (2018-04-08 02:36:53)

bigfoot:

Jeff is partly right, in that I am having fun messing with the lot of you on this one.  But the reason I am so adamant about making the points on the "Dailey was telling the truth" side is because so many people are so adamant about making points on the "Dailey was spewing bullshit" side.  It hardly makes for an interesting discussion if I just say, "Yeah, I agree with you," now does it?

Look, I know what side this comes down on.  I've known for a long time how this was all going to play out.  Whether Dailey was lying or telling the truth... you're just going to have to wait and find out.  But don't expect me not to tease the fuck out of all of you when you insist that it has to be one way or the other.



Eric Storm

The story is all yours, of course.

However, I think there are facts not yet in evidence. 

Betrayal, in my opinion would require foreknowledge that David was going to be cursed and imprisoned in Haven for all eternity.  And at this time, we don't know if they had that knowledge.

For arguments sake, lets say someone learns about some teenager struck with tragedy and goes to some college saying "I'll give you an anonymous grant of several million dollars and pay the tuition of this kid, but you can't tell anyone why he is being invited into your school."  The kid goes through school and excels at it, even making it into a doctorate program.  Now, a year before finishing his doctorate, the guy that has been paying his way and got him into college decides to kill him.  If the school knew nothing of the planned murder of the kid, did they betray him?  All they knew was they are getting a boatload of money to educate the kid and maybe look after him.

Sorry, as one of my brothers likes to tell me, At times I like to be contrary.

Last edited by Barbarian3165 (2018-04-08 05:58:25)

Eric Storm wrote:

Barbarian, you are completely ignoring all of the OTHER things that Dean Lengel has done "in support of" David, like giving him positions of authority.  If she was acting on Dailey's behalf, she would HAVE TO KNOW what she was doing it for...

Not true. Dailey could explain his actions to Emile in any number of ways. For example, he could say his family has dealt with angry demighosts in the past and by Dean Lengel helping to 'properly' educate David, he would better fit into society and NOT become a disruptive force. In fact, if she could find ways to take him under her wing, she could influence a good citizen, one who helps people. "Can you imagine, Madam Dean, an educated demighost who solves problems and helps people? With your help, young Mr. Stroud could be a shining example of what demighosts could be."

In that example, Emile believes she is simply fostering David's acceptance into Dugerran society and has no pre-knowledge of Dailey's plan to imprison him.

Thus, NO BETRAYAL.

I'd also like to point out, as it is being overlooked, that Dean Lengel is obviously a skilled diviner - keep in mind her talks about it with David back in book 1.  She would likely have been able to tell if Dailey was lying to her... or if he was preventing her from divining the truth.  That, alone, would make any attempt by Dailey to fool her almost impossible.

Eric Storm

PS:  No, this is not something I'm making up "on the spot" here.  Dean Lengel described to David, in detail, what happens to diviners as they progress through their skills.  The only way she'd have known that so intimately is first-hand experience.

Eric - I keep coming back to Hamlet when his mother says, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

Eric I think most of us have the same problem. We do not want Dean Emile to have been guilty of such a crime for 7+ years with no notice. So we all keep trying to come up with alternate scenarios that obviously will not work. So we are left with two possibilities, Dailey lied or you will have to explain and we will have to wait.  UGH!!!  Well you are the maestro

Excellent point, thehilz.

It is possible that Dailey was the kind of @$$hole that only allowed information to flow one way, from him to those who worked for him. Saw himself as above the others and simply didn't deem their information, or opinions, worthwhile. But to do this for seven years would take a world-class egomaniac and I don't see that.

Excellent point. Excellent.

Hmm, leave the question unanswered at the end of book 8.... now I hadn't considered THAT option.... Thanks, StoryJunkie!!!

Jeff: he doesn't need to be an egomaniac, just not smart enough to know what he needs.  We already know that two of the people who worked for him could not contact him, only he could contact them.  So it is completely conceivable that he simply didn't value their insights.

Further, it is also possible that he chose David's parents believing, no matter what David had said to the contrary, that he would still go all out to save them. 

Eric Storm

It is possible that Jacob was never given this information.  All of Dailey's rambling wasn't part of the rite of passage, so it is conceivable that the person who imprisoned Jacob was less chatty, and Jacob may not have any clue why he was imprisoned.  As such, he would have no reason to warn David.

Also, something occurred to me in regards to your "Methinks he doth protest too much" remark.  I have not been arguing whether or not Dailey was telling the truth.  You will find that out in due course.  I have been arguing the SIGNIFICANCE of what it means if Dailey was telling the truth.  That sort of argument takes as one of its given conditions that Dailey was being honest.   If Dailey was lying, then the entire argument becomes moot.

And now, just to screw with EVERYONE'S head, I will say this:  Dean Lengel is guilty of something related to David.  What that something is, I'm not going to say... for now...  Is it colluding with Dailey?  It might be... then again, it might be something else entirely.  I will say it is something David will not be all that happy about, when he finds out.  (So, no, it's not something like, "She's guilty of having a crush on him.")

I'm so evil... 

Eric Storm

Eric Storm wrote:

And now, just to screw with EVERYONE'S head, I will say this:  Dean Lengel is guilty of something related to David.  What that something is, I'm not going to say... for now...  Is it colluding with Dailey?  It might be... then again, it might be something else entirely.  I will say it is something David will not be all that happy about, when he finds out.  (So, no, it's not something like, "She's guilty of having a crush on him.")

I'm so evil... 

Eric Storm

Eric it is nothing more than what we have learned to expect from you. LOL I am through guessing

Um...

uh...

er...

What does one thing have to do with the other, Centaur?

:color me confused:

Eric Storm